My strong opinion about OBE’s is that they’re just LD’s with very cool starting phase.
I’ve had these OBEs quite a lot, they can come when trying WILD.
At some point during the hypnogogic-state your body may start to vibrate violently, that’s when you should try to get up to start LD, other type of OBE starting is when you suddenly feel yourself weightless and start to float towards the ceiling, in this case you should wait until you’re high enough to make controlled landing and you’re in high level LD. 
I thought of a way to finally proof if a obe is real or just an imagination of our brain…lol…
But first i will go by all the postings of the forum…Lol…
however this could be done by real scientist and very hardcore ober’'s or real sceptics…
Same for near death experiences…
Jeff
“Or maybe a form of false awakening, in the sense that the starting environment is the same as wherever you fell asleep, and that the dreamer believes it to be real (no lucidity).”-dunlar
I think that is a great point you make dunlar, that if someone had an OBE, it couldn’t be an LD because they think that what is around them is real. Hence, even if it is an FA, they can’t become “lucid”, because the definition of lucidity is knowing that you are dreaming. Hah hah.
I have a friend that claims to be a pro OBEr. I put an obect in the centre of my room (a cactus) and told him to tell me the next day what was in the room.
The next day he said he had an OBE, flew over to my house (just down the road) went into my room and saw … a vortex. Then i told him it was a cactus I put there.
Although it was an interesting experiment, I don’t think this neither proves nor disproves astral projection.
It could be taken 3 ways:
- he failed to see the cactus, therefore astral projection is merely a dream located within his own body.
- he saw the “true” nature of the cactus. Carlos Castaneda would probably have something to say about this…
- He made it up. Knowing the guy, this is the most likely explanation.
i think ultimately it is impossible to prove or disprove astral projection but i am interested in your proof jeff.
mighhtyamoeba, you wouldn’t have personally felt that astral projection had been proven (well supported) if your friend told you about the cactus? Why don’t you feel that it could or could not be proven?
Id add number 4 to your list Mighty-
4.OBes take place in different dimension.Similar enough but different.
I believe in it strongly since my few experiences.This is actually why i doubt obes could be proved-some things stay real and some are different.You never know which one will be which.
And i think about as dimension so close to ours that things are similar.I e you “wake” in your house.You know its your house,looks same…but…some things are moved some are not where they supposed to be,some furniture dont fit…so on.
How to prove anything with it?
Jack - that is sort of what i was trying to say in 3 but you explained it better.
KMCdonald - if my friend had reported that he saw a cactus (and I knew he hadn’t cheated) I would have been very amazed and yes, considered this to be proof of OBE.
However, because of Jack’s no.4 i think it is unlikely he would have seen a cactus even if OBE is true. If no.4 is the case then it makes OBE unprovable scientifically. I think in the end it comes down to a matter of faith whether or not you believe it. I’ve never experienced a proper OBE so I’m more inclined to believe they are just dreams.
MightyAmoeba, if no.4 is the case, then how would you explain the fact that people who have OBEs tend to see things similar to what they have already seen. (ie, it is the same time of day, everyone is wearing the same clothes, etc) but they tend not to experience correctly things that they have not experienced? (I just though of another explanation, no.5, OBEs are temporarily influencing your will on every single subatomic particle to the point that you control reality the same way as a dream, and this would mean that when there was a “vortex” instead of a cactus, there truly was a “vortex”).
Hi
I think proofs are impossible.I already said it somewhere,but anyway:
Even if your friend see the cactus (without cheating,and not by incident) you are not sure that OBEs are true.Cause if you believe that OBEs can happen then you can´t simply say that e.g clearvoyance is impossible.So the only thing that you can prove (when you had someone who could do this test so many times that all the statistic fanatics are satisfied…) is that “something supernatural” exists.
But anyway,is there a different in an OBE where you see your real surroundings cause you left your body,and a LD where you can see your real surroundings by clearvoyance?
I like to think about it quite simple:
Whatever it is,enjoy it
Traumgänger
Good points you all bring up. Having experience with OBE, my opinion is that it CAN be real, but that sometimes, probably even a majority of the time it is not. I have had one, maybe two OBE experiences but they were both incredibly short. My opinion is that with a great enough amount of concentration you can leave your body and travel in this world, and go to a friends house and see what is in their room. The problem is that this level of concentration is very hard to reach let alone mantain. That is why my experiences were so short because I lost concentration quickly. It is also interesting to note that after one of these experiences I went directly into a non-lucid dream. So many of the OBE’s that people talk about could have started off real but then they lost it and went into a dream, explaining all the weird stuff that goes on.
“My opinion is that with a great enough amount of concentration you can leave your body and travel in this world, and go to a friends house and see what is in their room.”
If its travelling in a dimension next to ours you will be never sure if what you saw was really happening.The senses of your body are shut…but when having Obe/ld you percieve world using your brain:u can see colours of the sound i.e.In a way u can say you see far more and know more.I think this is why we see those worlds as unreal…an in my opinion…if we still had our normal senses there…would be nothing extraordinary in a dreamworld/dimension.
In the mentioned room you very likely to see heaps of things u dont see in real life…i.e traces of old furniture,more or less real.
Its so bad and frustrating we not able to say what percent of reality is there.While having Obe we are very close to our world so i guess the border between them is quite wide…in the middle where we land is just mix of 2.I guess:)
I don’t know if this has already been said, cause I can’t be bothered reading through everything. But, my understanding of OBEs is that they’re not in another dimension or anything but all in our mind and the way we see things is with some sort of pyschic powers. And the reason we still see a few things that actually there is because our minds are obviously not fully awake and still in a sort of dream state and that means that extra things can appear, or things can be changed, just like in a dream. I don’t really know a great deal about OBEs, so is that right? or does anyone even agree with me?
Jabberwock- by another dimension u can also describe a state when our senses are shut and brain takes over their functions(so it sees without eyes,smells without nose…so on)
“And the reason we still see a few things that actually there is because our minds are obviously not fully awake and still in a sort of dream state and that means that extra things can appear, or things can be changed, just like in a dream.”- id rather say its just whats above.World looks different cuz we percieve it using different tools…who knows but i think we see more,hear more,feel definately more and stronger.Our phisical senses are limited a lot.When we can finally see around with "naked"brain we amazed how many things our eyes are not able to see.
Just one of possibile reasons:)
Ok, thanks for explaining what you meant by another dimension. With us seeing, hearing, and feeling things with our minds, or whatever is it, rather than using our physical senses, could that be compared to hallucinations? And you say we see more, are you suggesting that these things are actually real, or are they just pretty much part of our imagination?
“…whatever is it, rather than using our physical senses, could that be compared to hallucinations? And you say we see more, are you suggesting that these things are actually real, or are they just pretty much part of our imagination?”
I dont know what to compare it to:(I guess its more like air to stone age man-he does not see the air,he does not even know it exists…then comes 20th century and we are able to see it,tell how it looks like so on.We just got new tools.Same about senses-they have a lot of limitations-we see only particular waves,hear particular frequences.When we meet ppl claiming they saw/heard more we say its hallucinations.Dont know but i rather think about it as lack of proper tools.Naked brain gives us them.
As to second part…hmm…i really dont know what can we call real.I guess some parts of our imagination might be true(real)after we leave our body.I wish i knew more:(
I have never done an obe, and Im not sure I really want to try it…It seems scary to me that you can walk the plains where spirits roam…i mean, what if you come across a bad spirit? I dont know much about the subject, so most my fears on it are probably nothing, or totally wrong anyways…
but yeah, I like hearing about experiences other people have 
Hello everyone! I realize I may be posting a little late here. I joined the forum a few days ago. I’ve learned a lot about projections from a man who has dedicated his life studying them. It’s strange that people who project don’t know much about lucid dreams, and dreamers don’t know much about projections. Serious people who work on their energy bodies should experience both phenomenon. They go hand in hand. I agree with what Jack was saying about dimensions. Also, Projections are similar to lucid dreams. You can control the liquid like atmosphere. If you have thoughts and emotions, they’re created all around you in 3d, colorful forms. …Therefore it’s tough to create a successful test for someone if you know everyone experiences things in different ways. Spherical vision also adds confusion to the equation.
We’re the ones spirits should be afraid of… 
Just a few questions…
Is Astral Projection the same thing as an OBE? Is Remote veiwing the same thing as an OBE? And does anyone know why people always tend to be looking down on themselves when they first start having an OBE?
Moniter, It’s quite common to come across other spirits. Most of them around the real time zone (the closest dimension to the physical) have a negative effect on us. They usually just want to consume our energy. The solutions are simple. You could ignore them, or fight them. Don’t show any fear or compassion for them. …To answer the question about terminology: the term OBE is old and still being used, because people know what it is. The term projection came around afterwards, describing the phenominon correctly. What is actually happening is that the etheric body makes a copy of itself. The copy leaves to go on the adventure. Therefore, the person is inside and out of body …at the same time! (a projection) Remote viewing is a technique one uses to have a projection. It is similar to using a WILD for projection…without falling asleep. You use imagination to create a portal, then as you walk through it, there’s a smooth transition into the astral.