Done, posted in the dream diary section… pheew, I’m going to try for the Ravens again tonight… Maybe being a tornado too, laters.
i disagree. I think the brain is basically a turing machine, NOT a highly specialized adaptive set of algorithms.
If it is, then it can learn basically anything.
see, the brain can learn new things if it tries, adn i think theoretically you could learn to see in 4d. it just depends on the neuropathways (the structures) that are carved into your brain. It may be difficult and rare, but not impossible.
think of the kids who learn piano at age 2 and can have perfect pitch. Or autistics who can count hundreds of ■■■■ in a single second.
Amazing humans, “ridleys believe it or not,” things that would seem impossible.
for example, there were experiments with electrodes hooked up to this guys brain made it so he could learn to move a computer mouse (not precisely, but he could move the cursor.) Yet, this is an entirely new “sense”. he wasnt moving any part of the body, he just learned via biofeedback, which brainwaves needed to be replicated in order to move the mouse.
Thus, if you hooked every baby up to electrodes that gave them a new “body part”, such as wings or a tail, they would learn to use it just like it was fingers or feet.
And what if you hooked up even wierder stuff to a baby?
Like, gave it a bat’s sonar sense, or a dolphin/sharks sonar (or lateral line or whatever.)
Or gave a human the ability to spin webs via silk.
There is no way o fknowing for sure, but i believe the brain could learn to use these specific new powers. Its just a question of synapses growing and sending the appropriate electric signals, and learning to regulate those signals precisely.
now imagine blind people or people born blind and deaf from birth dont even visualize the world in a 3d/cartesian way. That is specific to people with sight… so how do these people do it? some sort of mental model based on sound and such. They may just use sound to try to systhesize a 3d world… but if theyve never seen one how would they know? more likely, they have a completley unique feedback model of the landscape.
And if all thats possible, why not 4d?
So, being a Tornado is quite cool. I swept around the land, tearing up farms as I went. When debris filled me up it felt kind of like having food in your mouth but in this case your whole body is one big mouth… cool.
I met your dreamguide again Jack, I’m afraid that this time it might have gone a little out of hand 
. Well, I promise I will be more serious next time. Maybe I should find my own DG, if she is that hot it will be worth it.
I have less recall this time so i won’t try and regive dialogue but it was strange. She had a burn on her left side which I made go away (and she was grateful, he he) then some weird chinese looking old man spoke in a weird language and scared the hell out of her. So I killed him. Then I don’t remember much.
hey, why dont ya try and find my dream guide and telling him to let me know that im dreaming next time i have one 
thnx.
The difference is that 4D images are simply not physically possible, disregarding whether or not people can learn to see them. An image can only ever be 2D. Even a supposed 3D image is still only 2D in that for each x and y location on the image, you’re only going to see a single color, as opposed to every color that extends into that dimension in both directions.
Look at the monitor in front of you (the object itself, not just the display on the front). It’s a 3D object, right? Now, if you were looking at it in 3D, you’d be able to see all sides of it at once, rather than just the one obscuring front side. The mind simply can’t simulate seeing all sides of an object at once, becuase no image can ever be created showing them all at once. 
No single image, certainly, but what if you had 6 images? What if you had 8? What if you had 12? Obviously, these would be partly showing the same information. So why not a continous picture showing an object from angles? Sure, you can’t imagine it while awake, perhaps because of the sensory input from your eyes, but while you are dreaming all external stimulus is cut off (except for the extremes) so it may happen.
On the other hand, remembering this image… well, here it gets complicated. Surely you can’t remember the iamge while you are getting input from your eyes? Or perhaps you only need to experience it one to fill the concept in your head?
It really is impossible to determine until you manage it for yourself. Your severe disbelief certainly wouldn’t help you here, Atheist.
As for a 4D image - I see what you mean. But if people’s minds make cartoon, black-and-white, in-TV-screen, anime, and even flat-screen-style dreams, why not create a 4D dreamworld with 3D perception instead of our typical 3D dreamworld with 2D perception?
I often read manga (japanese comics) right before I go to bed and sometimes end up dreaming in black-and-white, 2D comic panels complete with dialogue in bubbles and pictures. The dream then just scrolls by like a slideshow. It weirded me out the first time but it’s so cool. If that’s possible… why wouldn’t 4D vision be? The very least your mind does is create a perception that would lead you to believe it’s 4D (even when it’s actually not). Still - right now, I don’t have a clue how to imagine 4D vision. I just don’t know what it would ‘look’ like at all. o_O
A thousand 2D images still won’t give you a 3D picture of an object. And besides, all-mighty-unrestrained-power-of-the-subconscious-mind aside, people will never be able to focus and concentrate on that number of items at once - if that was the point of your analogy.
Black and white images are seen all the time in RL. As are TV screens, and Anime-style artwork. A 4 dimensional scene can’t possibly exist in any form we are capable of observing (Ever seen a 4D picture?), so our minds have no idea what to do in a dream to simulate it.
Anyway, blazinfish is right. This is a little off-topic, so I’ll leave it at that.
dang whered Ureon go now?! 
Still here, don’t have anything interesting to post, when I do I’ll make a new thread so these 4D people can go on in peace. Got beaten up by street thugs last weekend so I haven’t really been able to focus on dreaming … I’m better now so it should come back to me.
i have a lot of stupid ideas:
drink alcohol to see how drunk you can get
try to swallow something huge, like a car
inflate yourself like a blowfish, and bounce
strip down to your skelleton
be the water in a fountain
shrink down to the size of an electron
watch a movie that you havent seen, then watch it IRL
keep a pen by your bed, and try to write someting IRL while dreaming
shoot laser beams from your eyes
shoot down the moon with a gun
develop a new sense, like the ability to see sound waves
Has anyone tried The Crowded Plaza Experiment? I think it’s in a LaBerge book, but I don’t know which one, or on what site I first read about it and I can’t find it on google. Has anybody got any more informatin on it?
As you might expect you have to get yourself to a crowded plaza. Everyone should be milling around talking to each other. You are in the middle of it, and just like in real life you should find yourself “tuning in” to individual conversations, one at a time, whcih you can make out above the noise of the crowd as a whole.
The experiment is to “detune” so that you aren’t listening just to one person at a time.
Presumably this means that your subconscious has to create every conversation at once. I suppose one analogy woudl be a computer game getting very jerky when too many characters are visible.
I remember reading that the results were incredible, spiritual, euphoric and, most amazingly, persisted into waking life.
The weirdest story was that people would not be able to use the computer for a few hours after waking becasue they coudn’t see anything on the monitor. Something to do with brainwaves and monitor refresh rates I would imagine.
This is pretty high on my priorities but I just can’t get long enough LDs to try it.
So has anyone done it? Is anyone going to do it now?
or pause time for everyone else in the dream except yourself. That’s a power I would Love to have in RL.
telephone random numbers
make yourself really tiny
turn on the tv and step inside the picture
From my experience, very drunk…
Especially (but not necessarily) if you really drank alcohol before sleeping.
Bowelfish, that crowded plaza experiment sounds very interesting. I can´t really imagine how something like this can have so strong effects, but if you find out more about it /where you read about it I´d like to know
tapir
bowelfish i found this an intriguing experiment and i copied your post into the lab so everybody who tries it can post their results.
https://community.ld4all.com/t/crowded-plaza-experiment/9727
more ideas
1. sneeze out your brain through your nose to see what it feels like not to have a brain
2. swallow yourself
how about this:
ask a DC to teach you a new short song, or at least a simple melody. then record it when you wake up
swallow yourself?!?! 
haha thats the best one ive heard yet! lol u crack me up Hallstrom.
wow-very interesting topic!
drinking alcohol and getting drunk was suggested, i had an ld in which one of my friends came up to me and offerd me a huge joint of marijuana(yeah yeah real friends dont give you drugs-lol) but anyway i found a nice spot and proceded to smoke this huge thing…and sure enough in my dream i felt completly out of it-even better than the real thing is, my perception changed and i even wondered if i hadent been stoned b4 he gave it to me and that i was actually awake stoned and thinking i was dreaming- anyway i think your mind has the potential to simulate anything along those lines even if you hadnt tried anything before im sure that even if you just read what its like your mind will make it all you expect and more.
that said, drugs are nothing compared to the normal lucid experience in which you can see and feel much more than you could wasted.
other things i have done experimentaly are try to do dragon ball z styles and blow stuff up with energy balls, but i dnt think i believed i could enough because all that came out of my hands when i said the words(sumthing like KAA MAAYAA MAAAYA) was a large round blue coloured bubble looking thingy that drifted gracefully from my hands and floated away- bit of a let down-no explosions or anything.
Also once had a LD where i was walking around an unfamiliar town, i decided to try somthing other than flying so i foccused on an old looking building and willed it to explode-i done hand movements like prew did in the old charmed and sure enough it blew up.workd for awhile then became less spectacular.
For all ppl interested in 4D vision - I just posted a theory that could explain why it’s possible. It’s “Mental Code” thread in the Theory of Lucidity area.