Suicide

I agree with Atheist also. To each his own. I’m only speaking my personal opinion of how suicide has affected me directly. I’m not asking people to agree with me, but just to understand what I say. I’m telling a personal story of people that I knew. No person here can understand those particular suicide situations that I have experienced. People involved agree it was a desperate act that resulted in selfish consequences. We loved these people and are not calling them selfish. The people involved with that person experiences a rejection and debt. The people live on with a hole. Stop telling me that I cannot recognize the results of selfish behavior. It’s nothing to disagree with. I’m very aware suicide is done for countless reasons. I’m only telling my personal story of the effects I’ve lived through. It’s just something to say “ok, really” to, not really something to say “I disagree, your interpretation of your life’s experiences are wrong.” :wink:

Suicide is hardly done to BE selfish. Suicide has other motivations and intentions.

Tell me you disagree when you share a real life situation where suicide wasn’t selfish.
Sure it happens, but not nearly as often.

I think a problem is formed out of the word selfish. It has negative connotations and some of us don’t think those connotations apply. For example, a person gives money to charity because they know they would feel guilt if they didn’t. You could call this act selfish because the person is giving with their own interests at heart. But, most of us wouldn’t call this selfish because it sort of indirectly benefits others in the process. In fact, the great majority of conscious acts are selfish.
If there was another word with the same meaning as selfish without the negative connotations, it should probably be used for this topic.
But, of course there would be cases of suicide stemming from truly selfish thoughts and also from selfless thoughts.
I wouldn’t say that everyone that commits suicide is not healthy/sane but the majority probably is.

On the topic, if i was contemplating suicide (which i am not) i would weigh it up like this: i can bare this life at the moment and there are 3 possibilities when i die- it is better than life, worse than life or the same as life. So there is about 50% chance that it would be worse than life. For that case i would want to live as long as possible, building up good memories to take to death (if that is possible) as long as i could bare life. If not then there is 50% chance that death is better.
Obviously, if you have experienced different levels of happiness you would be able to judge what level you currently are and the lower you are on that scale the more tempting death would be.

By the way, with that person who killed his wife then himself- he might have thought that she was going through as much pain as himself and so by killing her, he would be doing the same for her as he did for himself. Maybe she couldn’t physically do it so he did it for her. I don’t condone this, i am just saying that it might not be as selfish as you think.

Thanks for explaining that Alex. The word selfish can be as complicated as the word “Freewill” :happy:

It’s often portrayed that suicide victims think “the world would be better off without me” or “I’m a burden to society/family” or “I’m a loser unworthy of life”
These victims are deluded into thinking the world would benefit in their absence. They may view suicide as a blessing to those around them. I think this may be the emotion that helps them decide to follow through. Their deluded reasoning is actually selfless. The consequences are actually quite opposite however.

I disagree DA. It’s only partly the suicidals fault. Had there been more support for people who feel suicidal then prehaps they wouldn’t so readly commit suicide. For example, there are only 1 or two organisations in the UK local to schools which help suicidal people. Sorry if I repeat someone else or have missed a point. I have only read the first three quators of page1.

I agree. Here in USA, we officially call it part of actual disease/illness. It is something we consider very serious especially manic depression. We have a lot of counselors, support groups, hotlines, etc. for those type of people. Mental illness sometimes cannot be seen by this person, but only by others. When I was very depressed, I didn’t think I was clinically depressed. I just thought I was unforunate enough to be in that hole. I always denied it, but then when I realized that I was really DEEP in that hole. It scared me. I thought I was too far to be able to get help. :bored: It was pretty bad, but because that I was able to recognize my actions. I was able to improve steadily (not easy… trust me) and then I got out of it really quickly before I went to High School. I hate to say that, but I have a lot of experience about suicides both from myself and my friends. Sad, but true. :sad:

DreamAddict, I’m not saying that it’s absolutely not selfish or is absolutely selfish. It’s between that, but that person… most of the time… wouldn’t be aware of his/her action. Your mind is the base thing for you to see, think, feel, and taste in. If there was a chemical imbalances in your brain or something, you don’t know it. You lose movitation to do something. You lose the need to keep the relationship with people. You lose that “thrill” to keep alive. Eventually, you think committing suicide is the best solution because you felt no movitation to keep going. Sometimes, you think that maybe they are better off without you because you might think you are actually pulling them down in the hole with you and you didnt want that to happen. You know what I’m trying to say?

As much as I want to deny that I had pretty a lot of experiences in committing suicide(s), I’m just hoping that maybe by sharing what I have experienced from that and learned from that here will help other people to reconsider what they are doing. It is perfectly understandable if this person felt that it’s ABSOLUTELY needed to be done… you can’t really fix his/her mind… it’s really messed up and will take a while to fix it, but at the same time, like Jeff mentioned… it’s sad if someone commits a suicide. :sad:

Other point to remember, when you’re depressed… it’s already difficult to try living one day by one day. It’s also difficult to commit suicide. It’s easy to become really frustrated. Sometimes it causes the loops/build ups of emotions leading to actual suicide. You know what I’m saying?

Yes, I understand. Prehaps depression is an illness. I don’t feel that it’s the suicdal’s fault, by what you describe DM7. More like your brain has got so far into depression it changes the way you see reality.

I’ve never understood people who slit there rists at school. Why slit your rists, surely it’s much easier to posion yourself. I knew this girl who slit her rists several times. There’s also a boy who slits his rists. H seems vague at times, and replies unexpectadly to your questions.

Thoughts for those considering suicide:

  • death will come to release you even if you don’t kill yourself
  • every second you are alive you travel 18.5 miles through space (the speed the earth orbits the sun)
  • we are all living between two ice ages
  • after most jumpers jump, nail marks are found scraping down the surface jumped from
  • are you ready for the possibility of existing after bodily death?
  • depression can be a cultural thing: set your own standards
  • in a study, Tibetan monks were found to have signifigantly higher seratonin levels than usual
  • every night you have the opportunity to depart on a free holiday to Never-Never land (lucid dreaming)

Lebowsk1, those words do not help anyone who is depressed for real, and might actually make it worse for the person, but I know you may just be trying to help.

I thought I would just toss this in…

Studies have shown that Japan has the highest suicide rate of any country in the world.

However, Japanese living in America have the lowest suicide rate of any ethnic group in the country.

Weird, huh? :confused:

I wouldnt say I’ve come particularly close to suicide, but those kinds of thoughts help me when I’m in a bad place mentally.

The one about two ice ages is actually from Timothy ‘Speed’ Levitch, and he goes as far as to say it has saved his life on occasion.

Anyway would you say people who believe in an after-life ever commit suicide? Suicide would seem to be an attempt to obliterate yourself, but if you believe in an afterlife then you know that just isnt possible…

PS How could lucid dreaming possibly not help someone depressed? I think it could be a really powerful aid in that sense.

When you’re in the last phase before doing the act, you don’t think anymore about those considerations Lebowsk1 (referring to your previous post) :smile: Your vision on the world has increasingly narrowed until the only thing you can think about is committing suicide, preferably as fast as possible. All the rest doesn’t care anymore. This ain’t selfish or anything but only the result of a blocking mechanism inside your (sub)consciousness due to the idea of an upcoming death. The mind is trying to adapt itself to the idea as best as possible. Therefore other things need to be shut out, including the motivation of seeking help. The main thing one can do to prevent suicide is to notice the problem in time and talk about it. Talking can do véry much because this is the key to resolve the mental blockages and which lets you see other solutions to your problems.

Personally I can say yes.

Definitely!! LDing was the one thing which helped me véry much during my dark period two years ago.

Mystic yeah you are right. I once spent some time on a suicide messageboard after viewing a couple of those real-death video clips (call it morbid if you will) and the people there were just completly dead-set on suicide (excuse the pun…)

They seemed most concerned with the details of just how to do it without getting caught and without screwing it up. I was like “wait whoa back up, have you heard of lucid dreaming?” but all I got was a lot of hostility.

I guess sometimes people just get pushed beyond the point of no return, mentally.

Yes, I understand Dm7. I have repeated that point since my first post in this thread! :happy: These people obviously are not thinking rationally. They are disconnected from reality.

While watching the “Discovery Health Channel” I heard a story of a boy that almost lost his life in a car accident. His parents called the police, but his best friend had an idea where to look. He didn’t tell the boys parents or police, but he went with a few friends to search for him.
Just days before the boy talked about driving his truck off a well known cliff. He was a football player, and was also stressing out about starting collage. His friends found him at the bottom of the cliff.

For weeks the boy didn’t know what happened. He only remembered waking up in the hospital in pain. Afterwards he remembered having trouble sleeping due to depression that night. Around 3am he woke straight up and got his keys. He said he felt like a robot that was programmed to only do one thing. He said he didn’t think at all, and he was just moving. He drove towards the cliff and the first curve without a guardrail he drove over.

He said he was “a robot.” I’m glad to have heard that story to share here. My first post here also shared a story of how these vitims do not think and are in a sort of “trance.” I’m not sure if we should try to find a way to place blame on anyone, but nothing is wrong with calling the action a desire for only one’s self.

Life is and always will be a struggle. add more later, gotta go

EDIT:spelling

Well a German study showed that suicide victems had all 20% to 50% less serotonin receptors, that shows at least in the direction that you could call it a mental decease or a physical disfunction from the brain.
So u couldnt blame the person that commits a suicide from being egoistic because he/she isnt her self anyway at least not at that time.

And suppose ppl would all hate u, lol, would it then be egoisitic to not commit suicide?

I think when u talk about if its egoistic or not it has more to do how you yourself personal experience suicide for the ppl that are left behind. :sad:
But you never can experience how the person that committed suicide felt.
So to be honest…I cant judge that.
We can say however that we are sorry for the victem, and the ppl that are left behind. And i truly am.
I find suicide always a very sad thing! :sad:

Jeff

Yes DreamAddict exactly!

When I wanted/attempted to commit a suicide. I wasn’t myself. Like that boy said, it was like I was a robot. Also I recall some times where I didn’t think at all. I was unable to think except that commiting suicide thoughts.

It was really scary… those years passed so fast because I don’t remember really thinking. I was struggling to live one more day just because there were something inside me fighting to live. It was like I was trapped deep inside and couldn’t do anything. Sometimes I fall into that hole where I was purely depressed that I get “attacked” as if I was going mentally insane then boom I just knew what to do as if I was solely programmed for this… commiting a suicide. It was absolutely a terrifying thought to me, but I couldn’t do anything about it.

That’s when I really realized how messed up I was. I also couldn’t sleep. I couldn’t even fantasize like other kids did. All I thought about was committing suicide. Somehow I took action and tried my best to stop it. I looked deeply inside me. I started to meditate occasionally even though I didn’t know how. It took me… I’d say full 3 years to come out of it fully. Right now… wow I hold life dearly close to me. It’s so precious to me. Maybe Technodreamer’s right… because I have been at other end… so far in that end that I learned how to look at other end differently.

I will never forget it… it all started after my grandpa’s death. :sad: I took it very hard, but lucky I’m still here. :smile: With a renewed persective of life!

Life is too precious to end prematurely for me now. :smile: Oh yes, my life’s not perfect. I do get frustrated sometimes yes of course; however, I learned how to deal with it much better now. :biggrin: It’s a beautiful thing. :smile:

For the people that don’t beleive in Heaven nor hell, what do you think happens to the person when they commit suicide? After i think about it, there’s no answer :confused: :eh:(well maybe :eh: ) What do you think?

Well, i don’t believe in them and i just think it is similiar to turning off a computer. The person doesn’t exist without life. Just my opinion, so don’t bother arguing against it. :smile:

But Alex, if you say we are just computers then ho…

… ok. It is only your ‘opinion’. So it’s no good arguing about it…

I guess in a way it is a good opinion to have because when you die and find out you are wrong, it will come as a great surprise. :stuck_out_tongue:

This thread reminds me of a Japanese anime I saw t’other day, ‘Lain’. In it, a girl commits suicide but her ‘soul’ continues to exist and can communicate via a futuristic internet network.

What is it like to die?

It really hurts! :slight_smile:

Are you saying this as a fact (when you die and find out you are wrong) or as your opinion? :confused:
I wonder what it would be like if that anime was real.