Recurring encounters with demons in LD/OBE/SP, please help.

Okay, I’m not sure where to begin with this, as I could easily make it extend to at least 10 pages long, but I’m very tired right now. I just found these forums and am very pleased with them so far, they seem to be a vast step up from dreamjournal.org

(oh and this is going to be sexually eplicit but i’ll try and keep things proper and brief)

So… really the best way for you to understand what I’m going through is for you to read through all of my dreams (which would take a while) but I’ll try and paint a brief picture.

I can LD at will, whenever, wherever, with I’d say a 90% success rate… basically if I want a LD during the night… I have one, with few exceptions.

I can sometimes induce OBE, either via natural SP, or by waking myself up into paralysis and exiting the body.

I have not determined that there is any difference between an OBE or a LD, and that there is an “astral plane” however I have had convincing results via contacting my friends through lucid dreams and have had a huge number of dream “prophecies” if you will… though since I stopped caring about them I haven’t had many…

One time I was so confident of one of them that I went on a forum saying there would be a school shooting in Ohio… and there was, about a week later.

If you really want to I can link you to it if you doubt me…

But at any rate… I’m kind of skeptical about the hard core superstition around LD and OBE, but I am very open to the possibility of their being valid supernatural applications to such things.

I’m agnostic, and have been for about a year or two.

Okay… so… when I first became able to LD a lot, all I did was have sex… I’m a virgin, so this complicates things… at least 90% of my dream sex is unrealistic and frustrating, yet at least 75% of the time while lucid I’m banging anyone and everyone I can find.

After months of doing this I started to feel kind of lousy about it… it was counterproductive and I couldn’t help but wonder if some of the dream people were real and I was in essence raping them… as often times certain girls I knew in real life would run from me so… that would be LD rape right there regardless of if they were real or not.

So I stopped having the LD sex so much… one day I had a non lucid dream about sleeiping (now my #1 recurring theme) and there was a girl next to me (i’m male btw) and she started fondling my “bottom” and it felt great…

Then a month or two later another similar dream… now I’m lucky if I can have a sex dream where this DOESN’T HAPPEN and it feels so much better than any genital stimulation I ever get… which baffles me.

So… I used to want the girls to do this to me… but… upon entering college I started getting strings of nightmares, especially sleep paralysis related… to the point where I was afraid to sleep and was hallucinating during the day (which led to me thinking i saw a dead body and telling campus police about it… after waiting 30 minutes… but at least i did the “right” thing )

so…

I knew it was stress related… it died down… I guess early this year, the demon thing started.

I began posting on some OBE forums and had my mind polluted with the notions of demons, angels, and “negs” and sure enough they started showing up… rather infrequently at first.

Now they show up at least once a week… a few months or so ago it was very very bad… I fought back and fought back hard, and it died down, it’s stirring back up now.

What happens… is whenever I have sex in a dream lucidly… I start feeling these sensations back there… very smooth, kind of like something is being inserted, but there is no pain or unpleasantness associated with it… sometimes it will pass all the way through and out through my “front side” which… I don’t even know how to describe… it feels insanely awkward… imagine taking a needle and ramming up from back there and having it come out of your… umm… johnson… except without the searing pain… just weird awkward uncomfortableness yet some pleasure.

I dont’ know how to explain it or why it happens… most of the times, the girl is clearly not capable of logically doing this to me based upon her position.

So… this started happening in SP… with demon creatures doing it to me, minus the pleasure… and I made the mental association of anal stimulation = demons, no matter what… so now I have to try and kill that association so i can have regular sex dreams again.

at any rate… now whenever I have sex with a woman, it’ll start up… i’ll think “demon? no, don’t worry… just finish up… it doesn’t matter” and she’ll turn into a demon… sometimes very gross looking… recently she tried to bite my tounge off (like on Kill Bill)

so anyway i associate this with ONE demon… he looks like gollum… i fight him, kill him, etc, but he comes back… i tell him to leave but he comes back… i converse with him, try to be understanding of him, nicely ask him to leave… he comes back…

he sometimes calls himself Maynard (i am a hardcore tool fan) and most of what he tells me doesn’t make much sense… but yesterday what he told me was really unsettling… which I am about to link you to.

So at any rate… I dont’ know what to make of this… I wish I had never read about negs… I do not believe in them, but my open minded nature makes me susceptible to entertaining the ideas, especially subconsciously…

I have a lot of issues with sex (and my lack of getting it) and have issues with privacy, THE GOVERNMENT (i.e. oppression, not being allowed to do whatever i want to my body [think substances], and the patriot act terrifies me)… my parents… they are intolerant of my views on goverment, religion, and drugs. They refuse to acknowladge that I want to use them for spiritual reasons (and no i don’t use them, i just don’t have the environment to)… and so… well… th ey have been known to spy on my internet activities, put spyware on my computer, look at the forums I go to, etc.

This overprotective upbringing has made me pretty neuroitc and paranoid… very very much so… I’m an adult, FYI… 18…

very pissed off that the government wants to legislate our diets… very pissed off that the drinking age is 21, and that i’ll almost be out of college by then… very very pissed off that irresponsible teens and gangsters give drugs their horrible rap (and thinks like H and coke probably deserve horrible raps, but come on, weed? shrooms? lsd? DMT? not exactly recreational social drugs) and well…

You could call me angsty I suppose… but I feel it’s very important to stress that I am living in an environment which I perceive to be VERY hostile toward me… and I have NO ONE to relate to in real life… I live in a very very conservative christian area… everyone loves Bush and probably isn’t listening to any of the reports from the formerly gagged FBI agent that has papers proving they knew about 9/11 airplane attacks…

meh forget about that… you see what I’m saying? I’m the polar opposite of this environment I’m living in… and I have no friends (i have old friends that went to another school but i’m radically different than them now)

So…

I don’t want to ramble and whine and analyze but I mean if you are going to read my dreams you are goin to need a general background about what’s running through my head…

I think this will do.

So… … here is my dream journal
dreamjournal.org/dj/index.cfm?do … olyReality

the dreams listed are but a small fraction of the ones i actually have, as I am incredibly lazy about logging them in… but i have pretty great recall… as you can see by some of the multiple page long dream entries… and i still usually leave details out to save space.

so…

of particular note is the one i had last night:
dreamjournal.org/dj/index.cfm?do … m_id=38727

this one is also interesting:
dreamjournal.org/dj/index.cfm?do … m_id=36762
a huge demon fest… mass chaos…

dreamjournal.org/dj/index.cfm?do … m_id=35949
and this will give you an overview of the girl sleeping next to me type dream, though it never had demons, it still had the same characteristics of those dreams.

and if any of you are curious as to how i have so many lds and have so much recall… i believe that everytime i exit REM i awake… becuase i’ll wake up after almost every major dream segment I have… and I certainly don’t sleep well by any means at all… if I go a whole night without waking up (ultra rare) my recall is almost nonexistant.

So… anyway…

I do really apologize for the length of this, and would sincerely appreciate any feedback and interpretations… this seems to be a very good forum without the mystic superstitious stuff… and it’s actually ACTIVE which amazes me…

So I hope to make this a place I frequent and take a part in and will contribute to my fair share of answering other people’s questions… but I felt like I’d might as well get the inevitable out of the way with and make this post.

thank you for your time.

(oh and one tidbit i left out, i live in OK, not LA which you’d think i might based upon my magic mountain dreams)

hmmmm interesting. Where to start.

ok this is gonan sound like a pretty personal question and i dont want you to take offence by it, but have you or anyone else in your family got any mental problems. That can reanger from just angery + depression to a little more, you dont ahve to answer or you could pm me and i can explain why. it seems like onset of slight paranoia. (sp?)

anyway back to your dreams. For starters, the girls in your dreams will relate to you depending on how you think they will reacte. Just keep that in mind. You say taht you feel as if you are raping the girls, if so i would suggest a way of starting the sex where you do ont. it wasnt clear, or i missed it, on teh way taht you start sex. If you are walking down the street and you just jump a girl for sex, yes taht will be counted as rape, remember what you do a ,lot in your dreams, or what you think abouta lot will find its way into waking life, now i am sure that wont happen to you but anyway.

I would change the way that you are starting to have sex with these giels, ie, if you go lucid heaps, which you are, why not take it a littlw slower. Take a girl out to dinner, get to know her, use some foreplay, play it smooth and then both consent to sex. that way it is all good and not rape. that was an example off the to p of my head, try somthing much more romantic i am sure u can think up of somthing pretty easy.

Now as for the anal with the deamons, taht to me sounds like you hold some fears and anxiety. actually a lot. i could chuck taht you are anal retentive in there but i dont wanna go into that. correct me if i am wrong but the male G spot is ment to be aroudn that area…

Anyway, why dont you tryu and turn around and face these deamons and talk to them, instead of fighting or reasoning, try and jsut talk. like “why are you in my dream, what part of me are you, why are you doing this to me, can you change to help me overcome my problems instead of feeling this way” etc. listen very cearfuly to the answers that you get, some may be riddled. these are most probally creations from your mind, and indeed very disturbing but there is always a way around ita nda way to fix it.

Remember you have created it, you can fix it. You must talk though, accept anything they say and thing about it, if you have 2 wake up and think about it do so.

Although there are some other possibilites. You may feel taht in your waking life things are not going your way, that people always want to know far 2 much about you and wont leave you alone, trying to find you deepest secrets and abusing them.

Or you may mind Sex as a vile thing subconsciously,or a vilalating(sp?) this is represented by the anal sex.

Atm i can not offer anything more then waht i have written. I hope that made sence, and soz bout ym spellin lol.

Remember ask, dont rape the girls in your dreams, play it smooth and cool, just like you would irl.

Why not try somthing compleatly diffrent in waking life 2. Like go to a party or club, somthing with a lot of noise and people, make a few new friends and see what that does to your dreams

Peace and good luck

Richard

well i’m not technically really allowed to go parties… in that i’m not supposed to be getting high on ANYTHING (even if it’s legal) while i’m living with my parents,

that would not stop me from going to one if I had the opportunity to, but I don’t know anyone and don’t have any friends right now so it would have to be pure luck to go to a party.

I hate parties anyway… I want to get high at home and explore myself, not have to worry about other people around me.

so anyway

“correct me if i am wrong but the male G spot is ment to be aroudn that area…”

Yes, it is.

As for asking the girls, you know I really try to nowadays, but it depends… I have so many different levels of thinking and lucidity that sometimes I don’t have any form of judgement at all, it’s like I’m lucid but I’m 100% driven by my desires and don’t stop to analyze things… I just want sex, that’s it… it doesn’t matter how.

So… I do often times decide hey wait, i’ll just have fun with the girl, maybe have sex eventually, if not it doesn’t matter too much since the sex usually doesn’t feel that great… but sometimes i’ll just go on a spree and not care about the dream characters at all… not think of the “consequences” of whether they could be real, etc.

So… it’s not like I want to do that, it’s just that it’s a primitive human male drive, and it’s a very repressed drive for me, given my virginity… so I mean… sometimes I just go crazy… depending on my lucidity I can sometimes stop, sometimes I don’t want to.

If I’m fully lucid like I’d be in real life then usually I dont’ have a problem with at least asking them if it’s okay.

And if I’m non lucid I don’t normally have sex at all becuase I wouldn’t know what to do and I’d be nervous around girls… so they usually intiate it by coming up and talking to me or something.

I do talk to the demons, I try to figure them out, figure out what they mean. I don’t always try and fight them. But sometimes I have to do to get them to initially leave me alone.

So… I kind of want to break this association I’ve made with them… because I don’t want to always associate having dream sex with that particular demon… you know? I can ignore him and pretend he’s the normal girl, sure… but… I don’t think that fixes it.

So I don’t know… I’m operating on the beliefs of the unconscious mainly, so that if I ask a girl if she’s a demon she’d say yes right now, since I expect her to be…

But then again… what if they are real? Then asking could prove helpful in elimating the problem… I’ve been trying to avoid sex though more unless its intimate and meaningful and trying to explore really weird abstract spirtiual like places.

Sometimes I can’t help but get caught up in the plot of my dream like it was an interactive movie though, it’s very fun.

oh and my family has had a history of depression, that’s about it.

hmmm ok thanx for that, i didnt mean go to a party and get high, i ment just go to a party. ofcourse making new friends can be hard if you dont know how to go about it and by the sounds of it you are a introvert, corect me if i am wrong there also, and being so it may make it harder, but diesnt mean that it is any less accsessable to you.

but i think the first step to solving your problem there is to make a few new friends, yer i know that is harder then just writing it write, and then you think what have i got to offer what if they dont like me etc. right if you thought that i want you to slap your self.

Every person on this entire planet has a lot to offer they just have to find it them selves, adn if they cant do that they need to find the are that will, a creative outlet so to speak.

So forexample if you like books, you will want friends taht like books too? well cruise down to the library and just pick up a few books, sit down somewhere where you know there will be a few people that will sit near you, doesnt have to b right next to you, but close enough. Then you can check out what they are reading. now it is a libray so you cant just cruise up to them and talk heaps and loud cuz u will just get kicked out. find an approach taht will go good for you. If they are reading a book that you have read before talk to them about that when thaey are leaving, or cruise up to them quietly and just learn over them and say somthing like “i loved that book when i read it, what do you think?” and see if they will let you sit downa nd talk.

That is just an example, there are heaps of ways about it but totaly try and find people that are interested in the things that you like to begin with, makes it a lot eaiser.

Anyway it is good that you talk to teh deams, i do not think taht ingoring them is the key, i still think that talking is the key, hell spend an entire lucid dream talking to them, if you still dont get the answer you want, talk some more in your next dream.

Just to help clear your mind, there is no proof that people inside a dream are real people…as of yet. but if i may i am gonna give you a little trick that has helped me determin that.

Dream characters feel hollow to me while real people feel, well real warm and actually there. Hmm hard to explain. Just sorta stand there and try and extend your awarness and feel the next person that is around you. or even better jsut ask them, we are doing a project in teh lucid lab atm where we do this.

Desires can be hard to controll but remember it is you that can always be in control, in a lucid dream or even in a non lucid dream, just focus on what you really want and what you want to acheive, and it will reflect it self in your dreams.

Makin sence?

Peace and good luck

Richard

wow !!!

first of all, lemme say welcome to the forum holy reality… i agree with most of what timeless said, so there’s really no need for me to echo it.

is there any reason you’re going to college in your hometown ??? you don’t seem to like the environment and your parents rules at all, maybe you’d like an out of town college better

it’s hard to find like-minded people. that’s one of the reasons i like this forum so much, when i found it i was like “you mean there are people out there like me ??? !!!” the friends i do have always tell me that i’m the weirdest person they know, but they still hang out w/ me, so i guess i’m not weird in a bad way… you’ll find your place man

anyway, when i have LDs i too have the urge to go and find a girl to have sex with. i keep telling myself to do something else but i usually don’t think about it when i become lucid. i started putting a post-it note on my monitor of alternative dream activities, and the last few times i became lucid i tried something from the list i made rather than trying to have sex, it may work for you too

anyway, i have a random question. your name is “holy reality” but you say you’re agnostic and don’t want any “mystical” explanations (there are plenty of people on this forum who will give you mystical explanations, me being one of them, but i decided to spare you since you asked so politely ) anyway, i just thought “holy” and “agnostic” were kinda oxymorons

but that’s all i have i think, again, welcome to the forum

omg stickys on teh comp screen what a good idea. u r such a god

a god ??? heh, not yet… one day though

glad to be of service though bows

lol damn right, say hello to the yellow sticky pads, i might progeam a few into da mobile

Last time I met a ‘demon’ in a dream I just prayed and he exploded into paint all over town.

The thing is not to be afraid. Have faith in God if you believe in God and it will be easier. Just praying for the Blood of Jesus to cover them will remove them… but belief is required.

Once I had a ND where I was put in jail for believing in Christ. It felt very realistic. The bad guy was not a demon but he was Agent Smith from the Matrix movies. He wanted me to renounce my faith but I didn’t. I woke up wanting to meet this guy again to face him. I faced him awake however, through prayer, so I didn’t need to meet him in a dream again.

Have faith and the demons will be destroyed… whether they are real ones or simply dream constructs of the mind.

Good luck… I suggest praying to God to protect you while you dream, before you go to sleep.

Edit: OOPS - I didn’t read the part where you said you where agnostic… Just thought I’d share my opinion.

Having faith in something could help you, whatever it is. that’s what I believe.

Try, like you wrote I think, talking to these strange DC’s because that’s what they probably just are.
Laberge mentions asking them what they represent. you could try that. I tried asking some DC’s just that in my last LD. They said they represented nothing, but I think I expected that so I got that.

I think we got what we expect. Expect peace and you get peace in the dream.

very good way 2 put it. Expect peace and it will come, i like it

I know your agnostic, but the Catholic Bible can solve problems where people are being dicks to you. For example, killing and violence does not solve problems… as the Bible teaches… so scrath that one, since the demon will just reapear.

Now, #1, its a dream, so he cant do jack to you that can damage you… hes just trying to get into your head.

#2… its not a real demon, so dont fret. Also, this demon probly represents some problem in your life that you need to solve.

#3 Treat the demon like you would treat your friend. Why? because would it be harder to hurt your friend or your enemey? The bible teaches this tactic as well!

#4 Ask God to get rid of the demon… Now… I know you dont believe in God, BUT, if this does work, the demons gone, otherwise you lost nothing.

i guess you can only try. How is the problem going anyway?

hmm

"That is just an example, there are heaps of ways about it but totaly try and find people that are interested in the things that you like to begin with, makes it a lot eaiser.
"

That’s the problem… the only people that are like me tend to be adults, like my teacher… I feel like I’m about twice as old as I really am.

And I’m kind of avoidant so I haven’t talked to her since her class was over

Anyway… when I used to believe in God, praying did nothing other than wake me up from nightmares… I never had recurring “demons” though.

My name is holy reality becuase it’s from a Tool lyric… (from parabola) and you do not have to be religious to be spiritual… I find great spiritual signifiance in the world and dreams sometimes. I just don’t want to limit myself to any set way of thinking and perceiving.

Lately I haven’t been able to get lucid much more than once a night… I think I sort of partway desire that… a kind of break from them… I go through a sort of LD break once in a while so this is probably it.

You said there is no proof that they the DCs are real but I’m going to have disagree… I now am pretty damn sure they can be…

Tuesday I was a bit hung over (i’d much rather have mary jane available to me than alcohol) and I skipped school… so… having done that I realized that we were supposed to review for the test in art appreciation which was on thursday… so I studied a bit on wednesday then largely forgot to study the rest of the material… which I remembered right when I was getting ready for bed.

So I figured I’d just wing it like I normally do… but I decided that I would go lucid and ask my art teacher about the test and ask her for a good grade… well… I failed at doing that come 6 a.m… so… I was having a dream about being in band that I peridoically halfway woke up from… I knew I didn’t have much time left… the only thing I could think of to keep me lucid while going back was to take chalk and write LUCID on the stand…

it worked… when I reentered the dream I wandered through the halls of my old HS wondering how i’d find her, being a college teacher and all… I said her name over and over… and decided I’d have to will her into this dreamscape, so I found a door with blackness behind it and told myself she msut be in there… and I opened it and she was.

I asked her about the test, and she told me it was postponed until tuesday and that we would be reviewing thursday…

So… I was cool with that… when I got up I figured it probably wasn’t true…

Well I got to school, not worried about the test at all, and when I walked into class I asked her about it, and she told me, much exactly the way she did in the dream, that it was postponed until tuesday and that we were reviewing today.

I even wrote a little dream description down on my study guide just for record.

This isn’t the first time things like that have happened to me…

But what bothers me about this… is after I talked to the teacher in dream, I went and imagined this girl into existence (a girl from real life) and tried to have sex with her, but she clearly wasn’t willing… I took control of her, told her it was a dream so it was okay… and well… animated her with my thoughts basically.

So… I don’t know if being able to control someone with your thoughts means they aren’t real, or if it’s just like some form of thought control upon a real person… but I mean my teacher clearly seemed to be real… so why wouldn’t this girl be? I brought her to me in much the same manner (with no intent of her being REAL though).

The other day I told myself I’d cut down on the lucid sex and try to apologize to that girl in dream in exchange for not being caught with something stupid I did while drinking… and it played out the way I wanted it to…

So I suppose to keep in line with karma/guilt whatever I should hold myself to it… I never had to lie or anything but I still felt kind of bad about it.

It wasn’t anything at all major though.

But…

the demons… I don’t know… I had a non lucid dream about me having to poision a Brazillian general with vodka… and I took some of it and saw a floating movie of evil brazillian sex ghosts… i think it was supposed to have correlation to my demons and whatnot…

and while watching it I think maybe I had sex with one of them and the same type of things happened to me.

So… they are still there…

I did make some progress with the one particular “Maynard” demon though and I think I can link you to that to save a lot of space in here.

dreamjournal.org/dj/index.cfm?do … m_id=38825

then i had an interesting dream about some sort of incubus cleansing planet…
dreamjournal.org/dj/index.cfm?do … m_id=39232

and last night i had a very surreal dream about my friend in california who i think i mentioned i got to contact me through a previous lucid dream…

what was weird… was there was a christmas tree in my yard… and i set it on fire with my hands… he ran through it and was like “whee i’m on fire” then i made it snow to put the fire out…

then later on i had a false awakening in my grandparents house while hearing/seeing a tv ad in hypnagogic hallucinations… it said if you watched the next upcoming ad, you would be under mind control… so i was yelling at my friend not to watch it… i couldn’t escape it though, it was everywhere, and then i was in my grandparents house and i tried to turn the tv off… the ad started and it was on a beige screen with dark green text, like a test question… it was a tv commercial for singulair i think… i turned it off and ran away but i could hear it playing in my head…

then i went out back, looking for my friend and their neighbors house was on fire… some guy was yelling for help and i could hear his wife inside… screaming… it was horrible… i forced myself awake.

sometimes this happens whenever i goof around with fire in my dreams… it transitions into another dream where people are burning… i don’t get it… i don’t think it literally means if i play with fire, somewhere int he dream universe it is killing people… maybe it represents cleansing some part of me… i don’t know… but the last time it happened it was at my grandparents house too… but i managed to go back and save them.

oh and the first thing that was on tv when i got up, many hours later… was a singulair commercial

not to double post but in order to cut down on length

i just read from dreamjournal.org that

OSTRICH
Generally used as a symbol for not wanting to see what is going on by sticking your head in the sand.

and there was an ostrich in my dream about the woman burning… before that… and then how i ran away from them and woke myself up… weird…
here’s the full dream, i just wrote it out.

dreamjournal.org/dj/index.cfm?do … m_id=39234

Cute but an ostrich could mean plenty of other things.

i know.