I would certainly close the argument at this point; I think milod789 has raised the best point in aeons. 
Well, I think most dreams are in our own minds, except for possible shared
dreams, and I do think that there can be other influences such as angels (good and bad ones) on our dreams. I don’t think anything exterior can be harmed by what we do to a DC.
Yet, when we do something in a dream and are conscious - really conscious - of it, it indicates something about us. Something inside of us.
Is it good, is it bad? Think about it a bit. Does the act make you feel good, or bad?
The DC’s are part of ourselves generally and may represent things like problems, feelings, concerns, etc. What will maiming or killing them do to our own self? I mean internally. There might be a bad psychological effect too.
It’s YOUR world, YOUR mind, so it’s your decision, that’s correct and I agree with you. I choose to be more positive than simply going around butchering people in my lucid dreams. There is more to life than being a terminator.
About whether DC’s have rights: do your problems, feelings, etc have rights? Not really but I would try to work with them and solve them, rather than attack them which is at best pointless.
I agree with milod that LDing for self improvement or other spiritual reasons would not benefit from DC mistreatment. I think it is better to see what a DC monster means and represents rather than blow it up and
create some revenging DC instead. Is it not better to practice peaceful LD’s rather than infecting yourself with violence? Putting violence in your core might not be the best thing to do.
What I would ask is that you people who insist on doing various things to your DC’s, would post back about any ‘dream avengers’ they encounter. I know some of you have said you don’t have any. Perhaps you would begin to get nightmares etc. Would you post this or would you hide it?
Incorrect IMO. True morality belongs to the heart i.e. that part of you which makes conscious decisions. Guess what, it’s active during LD’s (at least the ones where you do have enough element of conscious awareness and choice of behaviour). I believe it is connected to the critical faculty.
I agree - if according to your beliefs, an activity is harmful, it’s best not to do those things in the LD too, because of the effect on your soul.
I will watch action movies which have lots of violence, but that’s different from doing the violence yourself in a dream.
Balance is important, right… Be positive in one’s LD’s and you will get more out of them, that’s my opinion.
Just because people are even thinking DC should have rights, im going to do a mass murder of them in my next ld. I will beat them, torture them, burn them alive, cut their left legs off with a chainsaw, put a bunch of them in a car crusher, push some off a building, hang 1 from a tree and beat it like a piniata with a samurai sword, rape some, eat some, make them kill each other, etc.
HELL YA!
Of corse I have. We all have. However our lack of control of a DC is related to our level of lucidity and not due to an exercise of will by the DC. In a low level LD you may barely have control over yourself let alone a DC, but in a high level LD you can control everything including DC ‘s if you want to and believe that you can.
r3m0t
r3m0t and I actually agree on something. LOL 
My god the world must be coming to an end.
Seriously though thanks for the complement.
Happy Dreaming All
lol, I just did a hot dream character in public this morning, hehe. It was strange, cause she resisted at first, then later she did notthing. Its like make up your mind bitch!
Dark Matter wrote:
clarkkent replied:
I am sure you won’t be surprised but I am going to agree with dark matter on this one. Dreams are not real and no one (including yourself) is harmed by actions that you take in a LD. I think it is perfectly ok to: explore different aspects of yourself, vent, throw tantrums, explore fantasies, even delve into taboo’s. It is all in the privacy of your mind and none of it is real. In the end you are just an actor in your own private move.
Heres my belief about morals in the heart:
- Dont think about doing immoral stuff to REAL people.
- If you think it is immoral to do evil stuff to a dream character (my premise is that dream characters are not real, thats my belief), then you must think it is immoral to try and kill a rock.
tagteams with milod it’s like you knew i was gone for the weekend so you answered on my behalf, nice looking out !!! but i’m back now so i’ll just expand on that
=> holy reality, i don’t really like to get into the god argument, i’ll just keep it brief and say that i was only speaking in this terms cause you spoke in those them. i guess you could say i’m agnostic, but i don’t like labels, they’re rather ineffective
but to answer your question, i don’t think that just because something dies that god literally killed it (partly because i don’t believe in god really), but what’s this about free will ??? how many people freely choose to be in the path of a tornado ??? i don’t see how free will applies here at all, and for the sake of argument, if i said that god caused the tornado… (or at least had the ability to stop it) then it’s rather like random killing to allow the “good” to be punished with the “bad”
that was indeed the clincher that you had not mentioned before. you are asking if it’s okay to torture other beings with souls and such that are apart from us. to that i would say no.
this thread was concerned with the DCs running around in our dreams that we cajole into having sex with us when we become lucid
i think you are misunderstanding this thread due to your own experiences with DCs, i’m remembering a thread you started concerned about raping resistant DCs. i think control over DCs is a skill, just like flying, and walking through walls. some people can fly with no problems, other people have to work at it to finally convince their minds that gravity is just a suggestion that can be ignored
the same works for DCs, i think it may be possible that you just aren’t naturally skilled at controlling your DCs, i don’t think you should confuse that for your DCs as beings with souls apart from yourself
to clarify my stance: i am against the wholesale slaughter of sentient beings, but if you feel like torturing some realistic human shaped shells (ie regular DCs made up by your own imagination) then i’d say, knock yourself out as long as you balance it with some positive activities
An ND is different from an LD. In an LD you make decisions.
I believe that spiritually you may harm yourself in an LD. Your decisions and feelings are real even though the dream is not.
Your actions in the LD are thoughts. Thoughts will be judged, thus I believe it is up to you to do your best to choose the right actions in an LD. Of course perhaps you think this won’t happen (you will take that risk).
We all will make mistakes in life including in LD’s but we should be determined not to make them. It’s a decision which one should take.
- I agree with this.
- My premise is that DC’s are mostly fruits of the imagination.
Why would you try to kill a rock? It isn’t even alive. Same for the DC’s.
I think we have to look at the subject - the dreamer - not the object here.
The action has to be with the subject. The dreamer is doing the action.
I’m in favour of controling DC’s. Once I even made a male DC into a female DC.
In conclusion, I think one should try to restrain from certain violent activities in LD’s. Especially if one starts to feel angry afterwards. And keep violent activities to DC’s which don’t represent real people.
Your premis is correct, but, the thought is doing something evil against something that is nonexistant, like a rock, a book, a cup, a door, etc. So, if you are correct then you will be judged for thinking badly of a rock! So what your saying is that if you decide to kill a NON-EXISTANT person, it is immoral to think of killing NON-EXISTANT objects. Now, here is the fine line Mr Clarkkent:
If you start thinking about oh, it must be fun kill the REAL, president, then that is an immoral thought. But, if you think it would be fun to kill the FAKE president, there is nothing wrong, because you cannot kill something that does not exist.
oneiromancer
Yes. I received your telepathic message LOL 
clark kent
Those who throw rocks should not live in glass houses. 
We are never going to agree on this so, I think it is time to say that we agree to disagree.
ErikW
Actually it is not correct at all. Think about it. A door or a rock exists for real. But DC and everything else in your dreams does not exist at all. They are just images in your mind. If you decide you want to do something naughty in your LD it’s ok. It may even be beneficial to explore the different aspects of your self. Throwing a good tantrum now and then can even be a release leaving you feeling as if a weight has been lifted off you. Now I have always said that you should not do this all the time in your LD’s. Not because It’s bad or that you will do yourself harm but there are just so many awesome things to do in a LD. If you spend every LD exploring your dark side then you will miss out on so many other things.
Enjoy your LD ‘s and keep them balanced 
Yep. We can agree to disagree. No problem…
if i may continue to be argumentative clears his throat
i disagree… to an extent
if i may offer an analogy (i hope this analogy works, but it’s kinda late so my brain isn’t at 100%)
i do martial arts and there are few things more annoying than watching a beginner trying to do a move and stopping after every step (envision a move with 8 steps) and saying "ok, my hand goes where ??? "
i can’t teach you how to do a move if you are preoccupied with doing the move perfectly (well… maybe i can, but chances are, i’ll most likely kill myself or you before we get there) but when i have somebody who does a move (or an approximation of it) that gives me something i can work with. because the person has ALLOWED himself to make a mistake, i can say “ok your hand goes here, not there” “your foot steps here, not there” i can pick individual aspects of the 8 step move and give corrections until they get all 8 of them right or close enough and i tell you from personal experience, those who learn the fastest in the martial arts are those who let themselves make mistakes
the same is true for life… now i’m not saying that you should go out and make every conceivable mistake because that’s stupid, but i’d also argue that it’s self-defeating to try to be perfect when you are not. people make mistakes, i don’t think anybody is going to argue with me on that. but those who let themselves make mistakes… let themselves be imperfect will more quickly arrive at perfection or something closer to it than stopping on every step in a move with 8 of them to stop and say "my hand goes where again ??? "
make a mistake, a mistake can be corrected no problem… how do you correct vacillation ??? how do you correct hesitation ??? how do you correct indecisiveness ??? how can somone correct what you’re doing, if you’re not DOING anything ??? how can you correct yourself ??? if you won’t let yourself be imperfect, how can you arrive at perfection ???
God aspires for us to be perfect like Jesus, and we have God’s help for this (Holy Spirit, etc).
In practical terms: I’m not saying one will not make mistakes and learn from them (forgiveness helps in that area too). But we should aspire to do better / improve. If you don’t care to improve, like you’re saying, you won’t arrive at any real perfection soon…sorry!
The funniest thing is that when I first read this, I had no clue what you were talking about.
Maybe I should stop reading so much of the forums?