A look at a normal day in Guantanamo Bay.

or an isolated incident? (we’ve had a lot of those lately)

Soldier Nearly Killed in Prison Training Exercise At Guantanamo
In Kentucky, a former member of a military police company assigned to Guantanamo Bay, has come forward to tell the press how he was almost killed by his fellow American troops during a training exercise where his colleagues thought he was an actual inmate at Guantanamo. Sean Baker’s story took place in 2003. He was stationed at the Cuban base where the military was holding hundreds of detainees captured in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Baker was ordered to play the role of a detainee in a training exercise. He says four U.S. soldiers who thought he was a detainee grabbed his arms, legs and twisted him. One soldier got on his back and then began to choke him while pressing his head against the steel floor. After 20 or 30 seconds Baker couldn’t breathe. He gave the code word – red – to stop the exercise. But the beating continued until one of the soldiers noticed Baker was wearing Army boots indicating he was not a detainee but one of them. Baker suffered a traumatic brain injury that has left him with a seizure disorder. The military hasn’t confirmed Baker’s story but a spokesperson for the Kentucky National Guard told the Associated Press “There was a training accident, after which he was medically discharged.”

democracynow.org/article…4/05/25/1422245

my heart swells with patriotism…

and here are more sources in case you want to cry propoganda.
https://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/local/9044339.htm

https://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/jun2004/guan-j24.shtml

https://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20040623-114120-7762r.htm

https://news.google.com/news?hl=en&edition=us&ie=ascii&q=sean+baker&btnG=Search+News

Couple this with this:

Mon Jun 28,10:31 AM ET

By ANNE GEARAN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court ruled narrowly Monday that Congress gave President Bush the power to hold an American citizen without charges or trial, but said the detainee can challenge his treatment in court.

The 6-3 ruling sided with the administration on an important legal point raised in the war on terrorism. At the same time, it left unanswered other hard questions raised by the case of Yaser Esam Hamdi, who has been detained more than two years and who was only recently allowed to see a lawyer.

The administration had fought any suggestion that Hamdi or another U.S.-born terrorism suspect could go to court, saying that such a legal fight posed a threat to the president’s power to wage war as he sees fit.

“We have no reason to doubt that courts, faced with these sensitive matters, will pay proper heed both to the matters of national security that might arise in an individual case and to the constitutional limitations safeguarding essential liberties that remain vibrant even in times of security concerns,” Justice Sandra Day O’Connor wrote for the court.

O’Connor said that Hamdi “unquestionably has the right to access to counsel.”

The court threw out a lower court ruling that supported the government’s position fully, and Hamdi’s case now returns to a lower court.

The careful opinion seemed deferential to the White House, but did not give the president everything he wanted.

The ruling is the largest test so far of executive power in the post-Sept. 11 assault on terrorism.

The court has yet to rule in the similar case of American-born detainee Jose Padilla and in another case testing the legal rights of detainees held as enemy combatants at a U.S. military prison facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

O’Connor said the court has “made clear that a state of war is not a blank check for the president when it comes to the rights of the nation’s citizens.”

She was joined by Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist and justices Stephen Breyer and Anthony Kennedy in her view that Congress had authorized detentions such as Hamdi’s in what she called very limited circumstances,

Congress voted shortly after the Sept. 11 attacks to give the president significant authority to pursue terrorists, but Hamdi’s lawyers said that authority did not extend to the indefinite detention of an American citizen without charges or trial.

Two other justices, David H. Souter and Ruth Bader Ginsburg, would have gone further and declared Hamdi’s detention improper. Still, they joined O’Connor and the others to say that Hamdi, and by extension others who may be in his position, are entitled to their day in court.

Hamdi and Padilla are in military custody at a Navy brig in South Carolina. They have been interrogated repeatedly without lawyers present.

The Bush administration contends that as “enemy combatants,” the men are not entitled to the usual rights of prisoners of war set out in the Geneva Conventions. Enemy combatants are also outside the constitutional protections for ordinary criminal suspects, the government has claimed.

The administration argued that the president alone has authority to order their detention, and that courts have no business second-guessing that decision.

The case has additional resonance because of recent revelations that U.S. soldiers abused Iraqi prisoners and used harsh interrogation methods at a prison outside Baghdad. For some critics of the administration’s security measures, the pictures of abuse at Abu Ghraib prison illustrated what might go wrong if the military and White House have unchecked authority over prisoners.

At oral arguments in the Padilla case in April, an administration lawyer assured the court that Americans abide by international treaties against torture, and that the president or the military would not allow even mild torture as a means to get information.

story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s … mbatants_5

I’m glad the courts are SOMEWHAT working though.

Ouch! They thought he was an inmate, reminds me of “Face/Off” with John Travolta and Nicholas Cage. Was Baker of Arabic descent or do they hold white prisoners there as well?

A girl I briefly dated worked at Guantanamo Bay on a newsletter publication with her dad. She always told us about stuff like this. She said that the whole area was under this prevalent tension and that the soldiers were constantly on their toes, as if they were at the frontline of a silent war (her words). I’m not saying what they did was proper, and I feel the deepest sympathy for that poor man, but I also recognize that there are a bunch of young men down there on surveillence for a dispute that broke out before most of them were born. War is nauseating and a dispicable part of human nature, but I recognize that it can cause even the strongest men to lose control. My thoughts go out to both the man who now suffers from the trauma of this attack, as well as the men who are obeying orders and under the ever-present fear that most of us should never have to endure.

I agree in theory but:

they volunteered i don’t know about you, but there are a lot of kids that I know, that providing they joined the army, I’d be SURPRISED if they DIDN’T beat and torture arabic people… I’m serious here, and most of these types of kids do want to join the army, so they can kill people

as long as you get a bunch of angry patriotic kids joining up, you’re going to have so many problems, and they are going to be far from isolated.

a good … training for lack of better words could easily fix most of them though, so who knows.

it’s also extremely stupid that they dont’ consider sleep deprivation and forced poses everyday and near starvation torture.

i can’t even imagine going through that.

then there are stories of them shooting rubber bullets at them for targer practice, and all sorts of other things.

Yeah, I do have a few friends… well, used ta be my friends… who went into the military. I didn’t think they were patriotic in the true sense of the word, they were just kids who didn’t grow up with the best of enviornments and they needed something to believe in, something worth dying/killing/beating for, or the comraderie of others who were in the same boat.
Yep, they needed better father/mother figures, and yes they have definitely benefitted from the discipline military offers. And yes, I think that they are still angry young boys who are taking out their aggressions in the wrong ways, but I don’t see it changing or getting any better. All I do is hope that they find their way and eventually through the course of history, this sort of thing falls away. It may be a hopeless hope, but its better than being hopeless, because that’s the sort of thing that causes attacks and situations like these.

I thank you for your intelligent and well thought response/debate.

peace, love, and this cool emoticon to you all:

:mirror:

Really? I’ve never heard of anyone joining the military solely because they want to kill people. Joining the military is a major decision in someones life and I can’t see anyone joining just for the opportunity to get in a shoot-out with someone.

I also don’t think the soldiers are doing these things in the name of “patriotism”. Probably because they are undisciplined, ignorant, bored, and just plain stupid.

I agree here. Someone should be responsible for making sure the guards or whoever don’t think they have the right to do these things.

Well… I’m assuming people signed up after 9/11 for two reasons

  1. defending this country
  2. revenge

It’s not just about killing people, but you know how typical teenage males are they want to shoot off guns, blow things up, and they probably want to kill some “evil terrorists” so I mean… you get people that sign up to kill “terrorists” and well, bad things happen… some might love kiling, some might get sick of it real quick and mature a lot… but you know, get these people alone in a prison against a bunch of people, that they believe are evil, and it’s not a good combination.

not real patriotism, but how many patriotic folks have you met that are very ignorant, hateful, and you know, have no issues with our freedoms going away… sort of a “blind patriotism”

Yeah, I’ve heard a lot of things about them not being good at screeing people for psychological problems, when they talk about soldier suicides and stuff on the mainstreamed news.

or at least I believe I have. I think the military system could use an overhaul, no soldier, anywhere, should be ignorant of the geneva convetions, I’ve even heard of them, some soldiers haven’t heard of them, EVER? That’s what a few are claiming.

on another note, most people stationed in guantanamo are not in a hostile war environment are they?, I can understand tremendous stresses being an Iraqi prison guard, but you know, you’re relatively safe at Guantanamo and in prisons INSIDE THE US…

this is a really good read.
prisonexp.org/

I’m sorry, but that’s kind of funny actually. Now if this happened to every member of every military in the world, maybe it would teach them all a little empathy towards “their” enemies? Nah, I don’t think so either. I bet the people who tortured him won’t even get discharged either. They’ll probably get a medal for defending themselves properly or something.

well this guy that it happened to as it sounds to me was by no means a typical soldier, (most soldiers probably never even get the opportunity to see whether they’d snap and beat someone) it sounds like he was responsible in making sure people WEREN’T tortured, he didn’t “have it coming”

if he were like a former violent prison guard maybe…

but as you said, no… it wouldn’t make it right

only 2? There are many reasons why one joins the military, and I doubt many of those are for “revenge” unless they had a loved one murdered by terrorist.

The military offers benefits for people that don’t know the direction of their life. If someone drops out of school and later sees their life going nowhere, then they can join the military and receive decent benefits.
Some graduate college and feel like they don’t want to stop there. They join the military because they think it will expand their horizons and add great credibility to their resumé.
Then, some people have taken a hard path in life, and feel like their is no way out to a better life. Drug addicts or people of low income that are finally ready to make a change for the better. They join the military to leave all of that behind and start fresh.
Another group of people that join are people that just want to see the world. They want to experience learning new and technical things such as flying a jet fighter, tank, or submarine. They get to see from a perspective that many do not get to see, and do things nobody else will get to do. It’s just exciting to be part of the “comaraderie.”

but finally, believe it or not, Joining the military isn’t a license to kill!
I still believe that the majority of people the join the US military are doing it because they think they are helping the world. The US military isn’t always on some battlefield, and many soilders don’t see combat. The US military isn’t out to conquer anything or anyone.
You may think that it’s US propaganda when they tell us “we are trying to rebuild and liberate Iraq” … but guess what, the US soilders are told the same exact thing and believe it. So they work towards that goal.
Every hospital in Iraq is fully functional now, which didn’t happen under Saddam. Places that have never seen running water now have water wells with plumbing. Apartment housing with many levels now have elevators so the ill and elderly don’t have to take all of those stairs. Places that once had hazardous bare electrical wires to power many homes now have proper wiring built to proper code.
Who helped to keep the construction workers heads attached while they did their job rebuilding these places? US soilders.

I understand there are a few messed up soilders that are violent, but you are making a big mistake thinking all people that join are like this. I have loved ones that are stationed in Bahrain and it’s disappointing to read such a stereotype about the gentle people I know there.

Whenever people are given the power to Lord it over other people, there will always be abuse. All countries torture and abuse their prisoners but the people generally do not hear about it. Israel (for example), admits torturung prisoners and claims it has a right to do so and doesen’t care who likes it or not.

Many countries have police who regularly beat and torure people. This is unpopular but normal.

DreamAddict, did you miss the after-911

I seriously doubt anyone joined the military after the war on terror started up unless they were okay with going to combat.

and you’d be okay with going to combat if you were out for revenge or trying to defend your country.

You wouldn’t sign up for the military in a post 9/11 world for college benefits unless you were really desperate and willing to take a huge chance, or willing to die and kill.

and Agent11421 we get police brutality all the time in big cities… the few times it’s reported are just when someone happens to be brave enough to videotape and release it to the media.

Bush also, has said, that he has the right to torture people, I believe… I know he defended his “interrogation methods” … so…

What’s your point? It isn’t right and it shouldn’t be encouraged by the military… I somehow just feel like they haven’t done a whole lot in the past to discourage people from doing these kinds of things… hopefully I’m wrong.