Whats the point to living if you...

This is bit derail but just got stuck on my eye once again. Seems like this freedom slogan has been deeply rooted on every american at school. So many people so often say it at boards, i as a northern european scandinavian who lives in diplomaticly neutral socialist democracy find it just bit funny. You know, its not that unique to america really. And i wouldnt be too loudly even shouting that when considering the politics in your country these days. Patriot Act? Protecting freedom by restricting indivual rights? All this antiterrorist hysteria and higly questionable attacks to Iraq and Afganistan. Come on.

Here you have freedom to not to work or do anything at all, and still state supports you enough to have decent house and enough income to maintain basic necessitiesof life(that doesnt include 50’’ plasma screen home theather), no frustrated hobos wandering around because they got no other choice.

And as you dont need to earn money for your surviving, you might dedicate your life into something you really want to achieve during your lifetime, like if you have artistical dreams or want to become full day meditator/home-yogi/seeker… Society doesnt have any rules against that, but it has indoctrinated attitudes to people so that they run like ants that the big materialist wheel can keep turning with all the time rising acceleration… and the big question is, where is it even heading?

Though you might always seek yourself education that would allow yourself to make world a better place through job at society or go do some humanitarian aid where its needed. Also even without such job, just the small little efforts and enviromental friendly choices you do at shop have their small impacts, and with many doing those they turn into rivers that big companies cannot no longer to dismiss, such action isnt going to save the world, but at least its doing some good at the limits of normal working citizen.

I did, glad to hear you like learning, its what its all about. Hopefully someone read my rant aswell. :smile:

It was wonderful reading all u guys opinions on this subject…particularly Crouching Lotus & linnnunhammas’ :wink:

I’ll call you linn for short :stuck_out_tongue:

Linn, you say that “This attribute is not unique to America [freedom]” (or something like that :razz:), I’m not sure what the term is, (maybe free economy or something), but America allows you to keep the most money you earn. For example, Cuba, being the communist country it is, can take 100% of anything you have. America has the lowest “rating” for this.

I think both of our governments are good (at least the part where you don’t HAVE to work to survive). The problem with that is, the government has less money to fund things like schools, libraries, etc.

I don’t really like learning :razz:, but I like to have a lot of knowledge. I hate to be ignorant and not know what I’m talking about (like kinda in this post… that’s why my point of view sucked for convincing people). Although, I am going to be thankful of my education regardless if my school sucks (which it does).

Well I’m 13, so I am a bit more ignorant than any of you guys/girls…

You don’t seem ignorant.
You really do seem like a knowledgeable person. :happy:
I really like how you don’t post like
“omg ill call you linn for shrt
ya say that “blababla” or somthin im not shure what that is but amerika allowss…”
which I know alot of younger people post like.

Maybe 'tis just me (I always like to say 'tis… so much easier than it is…:razz:), but typing coherently is so much easier than typing like a monkey on crack… I can type pretty fast (well faster than pretty much anyone in my school… but that isn’t saying much… I can type like 120 wpm but enough bragging :grin: and also, I realize people take you so much more seriously if you type correctly.

Now, I realize that this is not what you meant, but I really hate it when people act like the US is the only democratic/free country in the world, esp. the uber-patriots. I guess we used to be trailblazers or something, but those days are gone. . .

Y’know, something like “This is America, land of the free, people can go from rags to riches! There are no social boundaries!”, as if Germany is still under Hitler and Britain still ruled by a monarch.

(Kind of thinking about school I guess, today in 4th hour we got on the subject of dreams…two of my buddies were talking about “dreams you could control”. I did a couple RCs but I wasn’t dreaming. :sad: )
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Somehow this topic got onto the idea of America and freedom. Since I have nothing better to do I’ll throw in a few bits of my opinion. I love my country (USA)! I feel that we have a political and economic system that, with of course a few exceptions, works and works well. I don’t feel that we are the only “free” country in the world, but I love my country the most because I’ve lived here all my life. We have lots of public services for which we pay through a reasonable amount of tax dollars. I think that the reason a lot of people complain about the government not spending enough on certain things is that they don’t completely realize the balance that must be maintained between public and private services, as well as a balance between individual rights and necessary laws.

Too many people complain that we don’t spend enough money on protection from outside countries (ie. border control) while some think we spend too much. Those people adversely believe that we either spend too much on local police forces or too little, depending on your view and where you live. Not enough money goes towards education, some say, while we have a VERY large number of scholarships awarded to people in college, and other services must be balanced out. I believe that education is vastly important because without educated people we are unable to make progress, but it is only one of many priorities.

That’s enough on that subject. Anyway, we must go to school. It’s necessary, as I mentioned earlier, for people to learn so that way as a society we can progress to a continually better way of life. Work is also necessary. Scientists are necessary to find new ways of improving life. Engineers are necessary for creating all sorts of things. Politicians ( :grrr: yes) are necessary to establish a set of guidelines/laws for everyone to follow. Teachers are necessary. Cashiers are necessary. Reporters are necessary. The list goes on and on! There is almost no job that isn’t necessary to our society. If everyone works together, we prosper and life becomes worth living.

So let’s all work together. “Many hands make light work.” Some times we feel that everything falls on our shoulders, but we all survive. Now I’ll get off of my soapbox and end this message. If you read this, congratulatioins. You made it. :wink:

That was a very good description about work…

She’s right, think about how many people you come in contact with everyday of a specific profession. Imagine if they weren’t there to help/provide/whatever you (this may not be true for some people but it is for a lot). Jobs help society run.

My suggestion is that you make most of what you have now. There is always a brighter side to every situation. Once you finish High School, which will happen a lot quicker than you think, the sooner you’ll be on the road to adulthood. :cry: .

There is no doubt in my mind that you’ll make the choices that’ll best suit your needs and desires!

Plus there are benefits to being an adult. Lots too.

Nice posts. Enjoyed reading through them. :smile:

Yeah, here we pay more taxes than in USA. But im not against that when those tax moneys are going for something that really helps the society work better as a whole. All schools are free here, even the best universities (helsinki university is among top60 of best in world according to recent study, and totally free, helsinki.fi/university/) Only tax money that i really see as spent unnecessary is the money that flows for our military (though its minimal if compared to USA, only for defence as it is)

Just to catch the darker sides of western world society too, i gotta add to that how things work and what jobs are necessary by Amethyst Star(beautiful name :content: ) that without 3rd world countries our way of life couldnt exists either. So we need to thank them too for us being able to live amongst all this material freedom and luxuries. Without all those kids working with way below minimal wage at some sweatshop in some poor asian/african country, we wouldnt be able to buy many pairs of shoes just for the sake of fitting esthetically to the picture media makes of ‘succesful people’ through fashion and other means. Also more poor people than us ‘rich consumers’ need to exists in 3rd world countries to produce us those cheap raw materials that we can then manufacture those further into luxurious well refined products. Its just how global capitalism works, it has no ethics of its own. Good example of unethical action comes from Nestle breastfeeding.com/advocacy/a … ycott.html

Also weapon industry (very big in USA) and oil industry are especially in the light of recent world political changes something that are making money with blood and suffering.

So it looks when you live in society like this that everything is going well. But its just that the poorest part necessary for capitalism to work is nowdays out of sight in some 3rd world country. Would it make you think bit more if you had to go buy your bananas directly from beaten up poor boy who suffers from malnutrition and has scars in his back from whiplashes? There are lots of instances working for the better of these people, but in the end its the money that has the most power, and its direction of flow goes to the richest.

peace.

I agree linn (mind if I call you that :wink: ). 3rd world countries, much as it saddens me to say so, have become as much a part of our daily lives as any in some form or another. Not to mention, not all of those countries get the attention of modernized countries unless they have a resource that we need (ie. oil, metals, gems, weapons, etc.). Many businesses are sending factories overseas to get more labor for less and that, though wrong, is a cruel fact. Now, that’s where another balance has to come in. How much monetary aid are we willing to send before it appears that we are depriving our own country of funds that could be used elsewhere? Many countries could leave behind their 3rd world status if us rich countries were willing to help them. However, one country can not do everything, but others aren’t always so eager to contribute either. Why would we want to give up such an easy source of labor and resources?

The only way for every country to prosper would be a redistribution of wealth, and you can imagine how well that thought flies with a lot of people. It’s a difficult reality we live in. Hopefully someday I will be able to help others in some form or another. That, I believe, is why I’m alive: to serve others any way I can.

Yah high school sucks i just started too. But you’ll start to love life
once you get comfortable with the girls… if you know what i mean! :cool:

Oh and don’t forget Life is fun with lucid dreaming! :cool_laugh:

OK, my thoughts on

Life sucks:
I don’t see logically how people can say most people’s lives suck. It’s not like we have something to compare it too. It’d be one thing if you were the only one who had to work most of his/her life, but this is just 99.9% of the populations life (damn you, .1%). Here’s part 2 of the Tao Te Ching, translated by Stan Rosenthal (Theres quite a view translations, all slightly diffrent):

Ignoring the Tao stuff (interesting as it may be) we can see that all descriptions can only be described because there’s something to compare it too. We can’t really do that with life, thats all there is and we can’t get out of it really. I think the reason so many people think this is because they’re brought up with all this “happily ever after” crap. I’m not saying happiness is impossible, I’m just saying not everyone can be a princess, sitting on her ass, married to prince charming. If you were born into a world where you and everyone around you have to almost constantly work, and thats all you ever knew, you’d accept as the norm, and never think “this sucks”. Same thing goes for a life of fun and no work. Our problem is childhood, we grow up doing nothing but fun and we’re told fairy tales we try to live up to. As demenstated in way too many fish-out-of-water comedies, when we change quickly from the the envirnment we’ve grown up in, we tend to always compare everything new to everything old, everything old being the standard. So life doesn’t suck, your pre-school teacher is just a liar. :smile:

American Freedom: Obviously its not just America thats free to religon, speech, etc. We (Young Americans) are tought in school how great America is, and how lucky we are to live in freedom, but this isn’t a part of the whole antiterrorist U.S. Pride bull, I was tought this way before the attacks. Btw, my social studies teacher had a poster in her room thats says “Think the world is free? Tell that to the 27 Million Slaves currently living in the world” not sure if its true, but its there…

P.S. I know most people get the whole “no light without dark” thing, but I love quoting :smile:

EDIT: That makes 800 for me.

ump-bay.

I want some comments/arguments on what I said!

I know this is usually frowned upon, so I’ll be willing to hug/friendly handshake (depending on gender) any angry mod! Sorry, I’m just bored…Mu(aha).

neo…i have no arguements about what you said,all i have is a compliment on the comparisons list thingy you posted…
that thing is kool man where did you get it from?

Tao Te Ching? Just google it, theres plenty of free ones. If your interested in it a good simple beginers book is The Tao of Pooh. :smile:

Thanx, ill check that out, :smile:

holy crap… 4 hours of homework? that is insane. I am in highschool and I don’t get much homework. haha or i just don’t do it :content: But i pull almost straight B’s so i am not too terrible. haha I don’t even have 4 hours of homework per month.

The way I see it, unless you’re lucky enough to get an interesting job, jobs are just there to get money so that you can do fun stuff. And everyone here seems to be forgetting that you don’t work all the time, you do a job so that you can save money as well and someday you get to retire. Then holidays for ever.