For all that think OBEs are real part II

I have done some experiments with OBE’s for a while… from all of my OBEs that I induced between being awake and dreaming stage, I discovered that I could control the enivorment. I also had some experiences where my actual body didn’t exist when I OBE. Time seemed to be different to me, like I would be out of body and it would be daytime whereas it was actually nighttime. I actually did closed my door and when I woke up… it was still open. I also began to wonder why I am alone most of the time when I OBE… what I mean… shouldn’t you be able to see spirits or have a good converstation with your loved ones?

So, I’m suggesting that it’s fake because first of all, it’s just a projection created by your subconsciousness. Maybe to some area it is real, but only because of telepathy. You know, the filters are gone by then when you have an “OBE.” I believe it’s like TV talking about USA… in some areas, it might be true, but I’d say 10% to 20% true. If you really want to know about USA, you have to be there in person (NDE). Other reason why I don’t think OBE’s from that stage between awake and dreaming is possible because your aura shield is up. How could you get out? I am aware that it’s certainly different than LD’s, but I think it’s a smart type of LD’s. It’s just a projection from outer world, but it’s heavily distorted and easily influenced.

Only beyond Delta waves, your aura shield drops. That’s when you actually “OBE”… technically more like having a NDE. Delta waves is a deep sleep stage and below that, you have NDE’s, coma, and death. You have no aura shield to keep you inside; therefore, you go out. Above delta waves, your aura shield still holds, thus, you can’t go out (an illusion or a projection like I said). You could go beyond Delta waves if you have an life-threatening event or ability to meditate deeply.

Mmm, do an experiment on yourself when you OBE. Try influencing some physical objects and see if you actually influenced them when you wake up. Try turn it into a LD. Try and contact people from other side. Try look at the clock. Try that hidden card experiment where you hide the unseen card somewhere that you could easily see when you OBE. Experiment and see if it’s actually a real OBE or not.

I gotta go for now, but I’ll discuss about that later.

lol yeah among the worst to tune into is CNN but I like your symbolism

I am not in the position to critically judge authors of dream books/OBE/Astral Projection however many of them I read so I’ll leave that for now.

From experience I did notice differences between WILD and OBE(Projection). In those rare moments where I increased frequency of vibration and managed to separate, one experiment I set up was random card face up on a drawer. Result: it changed. A second one felt more like a LD, I checked the thermometer outside. The bar was low (winter) but F and C scale were unreadable. Many other times the time seemed correct, but not waking instantly there’s no way to verify (…not to mention my powerful bioclock!). Aside other interesting observations, the point is, I am sure this is very much possible, but this will only prove that in those mind-states that remote viewing is possible. Or that faculties for clairvoyance are more open in those trance states.

anyways I meant to post my view now in relation to experience, reasoning, and what other’s have taught me

The only time I felt I had a real OBE (this was before I knew what an OBE was) was when I was 18 yrs old.
I was at a friends house and we were tripping on LSD. We were sitting around watching “Kung Fu Theater” on tv.
I really started tripping hard, so I felt. I was sitting on the couch and feeling like I was becoming like a heavy blob with no form, sinking in the couch. My vision was becoming distorted and the colors of my surrounding was becoming purplish or like a violet color.
All of a sudden I am looking down on everything. I was looking down at my friends and my postitioning was over the the fireplace. Now from where I was sitting , the fireplace was about 10 to 12 feet from me. But now it is directly below me. Then I looked around and saw myself sitting on the couch looking with my face forward. I could not tell if my eyes were open , cause at that moment , I was scared sh!tless.
I thought I had died . Then at that moment , immediately I was back at my regular position.
I have had , what I thought to be OBE’s and I would see my body on the bed, but looking around the room , it wouldnt be my room. If I walked out side , it wouldnt be my neighborhood.
One other experience I had experimenting with OBE’s was on a Peurto Rico detachment I was on (In the Navy)
I was staying in the barracks and one other guy was sharing my room.
I did make it out one night there, and I could see myself in my rack asleep. Normaly I would walk on out and take a journey. However I looked over and saw my roomate asleep. So I though " I wonder if I can wake him up and bring him out too?"
So I leaped on top of him and tried to pull him out . I yanked him up and we fell to the floor. He did wake up but he looked scared to death. I said to him “Hey man relax , we are out of our bodies, this is cool!”
He still was freakin, and I went ahead and helped back on the bed and I said " Its ok , it’s ok forget what happend , relax and go on back to sleep. He did , and I went traveling around for alittle while.
The next morning I asked him if he had any strange dreams . He said no, nothing he could recall.
I told this story to a fellow OBE’r and he pointed out that my mistake was , that I told him to forget what happened.

I have been exploring lucid dreaming for some time. My favorite technique is WILD which sounds exactly like how to have a OBE. So far I have never had a OBE and am a little curious. It defiantly sounds different than a LD. How do you actually have a OBE. Is it just by luck. You are practicing WILD and accidentally OBE or is it a mater of intention.

Sounds like the Matrix to me . (LOL)
I felt some of the symbolism in that movie may not be too far off.
I have been reading a little into the subject of dark matter.
I Have often felt the universe is just a big machine: And we are the reason the machine was built.
It is a machine that gives us the ability to take form and become part of the worlds . Maybe we all entered this machine to take part of the journey and lost our way somehow even to the point we even forgot our own identity ( The Lost Sheep ).
When we dream we are actually taking part in the worlds we create , and possibly, we could also be taking part of the worlds others create being we are all part of the same Machine.
May be that old song we would sing as children wasnt to far off…
"Roll Roll Roll your boat gently down the stream
Merrily, Merrily , Merrily LIFE IS BUT A DREAM !

I have, and always will, remain a bit of a skeptic about all of these things, but I am never one to discount any sort of this thing either.

One thing that struck me as odd though…

I’ve had a few experiences during bedtime, and one during the afternoon, that very closely resembled what have been called OBEs or APs by some.

I didn’t realize this, until I started reading this site.

Of course, I could’ve heard details about it before, or something, and not consciously realized it, but I think that making an assumption that my subconscious mind MUST have read about these details and recalled them, without my conscious knowledge, is far from the “logical” thing to do.

Of course, to assume that I actually did “leave my physical body” isn’t necessarily logical either.

All I know: I have had multiple times, before I ever visited this site, experiences where I heard a loud noise in my head, felt vibrations, felt like I was “floating,” etc multiple times. Some at night during/before sleep, and one while I was actually sitting upright, I kinda “zoned out” and… yeah.

One time, I got to the point where I felt the so-called “pop” that some people have mentioned, the noise subsided, and I looked down on my room, my sleeping body as well, and the room looked completely accurate… as in, it wasn’t distorted, it was dark… I was freaked out though, so snapped “back” and awake in short order.

So, my personal experiences lead me to believe that the phenomenon that many people have described is not merely some sort of LD that comes from a subconscious desire to have an OBE or to AP, because I hadn’t heard details about these things.

If it’s actually leaving the body, a form of telepathy, astrally projecting, travelling to another dimension, my soul escaping for a few minutes, Satan playing tricks on me, my MIND playing tricks on me, me joining the higher consciousness, becoming one with God, Allah, Buddha, Yevon, Sidney Poitier…

I can’t make any judgements on any of that. All I know, is that it felt oddly “real,” but at the same time, was a completely different feeling than in normal, “waking” life. The room looked much more real than in my LDs, but of course, who’s to know for sure?

And yes, the noise/vibrations have occured a few times since then, but I always end up getting freaked out and snapping out of it before I actually “leave,” for lack of a better term.

BTW Sleepy, where do you live? Fermilab is right near me as well.

I know what ya mean . I have actually been half way to sleep and heard banging in my ears.
This is where you are on your way to the subconscience.
Sometimes when you are in this point , you will get a feeling of falling, and your body jerks you awake . If at that point you thnk about it ( being you are really at that level between being asleep and awake) you can focus on the visuals and trying to focus on the fact you are near the dream state, you can take control there!

Why all these different and limiting labels?..

Ld’s and obe’s are essentially the same thing, the difference being that obe’s is what a 100% mental and stable ld feels like…

In ld’s, the scenes you appear in is a combination of your conscious mind and your abstract mind. (universal mind… or call it what you will)
The possibilities of the abstract world will be filtered trough scenes created from the thoughts and realities of your conscious mind…

In obe’s, the abstract mind takes over total control and manifest itself in it’s truer form… as a separate (or paralell) being…

The basic message has been so twisted and turned around the years…
To question if there is something like ld’s and “obe’s” is to say that life and death doesn’t exist… they are basicly the same, but they do exist… they are the polar opposites of each other… the basic logic of 0 and 1… - and +… off and on…

When + and - comes to be, the reaction wil simultaniously create the state that exists on the borderline between them… this place is what we experience clearly in an “obe”…

It’s the mid-line, and golden middle road, buddhists call the experience of feeling this state: “nirvana”…

How your mid-line will play out will be dependant on where you placed it in the first place… your life is basicly a chance to move the line where you choose to… buddhists and others call this keyframe: “karma”…

These processes are also somthing that as good as all religions (all which are originally just the same “how I apprehend existing, and good tips for dealing with the rest” manuscript re-interpreted by different minds in different situations and diffrent ages) have as the corner-stone of their way of life. Religions have been so mislabeled lately, all they really aspire to do is trying to bring us important wisdom and great metaphors from the people that had these exact same experiences 100’s and 1000’s of years prior to ourselves…)

This is also most logically the thing I presume you’ll experience when you die…

Remember, the only way getting obe’s and also ld’s is “tricking” your conscious mind to fall asleep and leave your mental self behind…
The only time in your life that your conscious mind won’t need tricking, is the moment you die… because then there will be no conscious mind to wake back up to.

The old tales of “They said it wasn’t my time yet” from so-called “near death experiences” probably came to be because there in fact WAS a conscious mind to return to… It’s not our time until our conscious mind is dead beyond repair…

Simple deduction of facts of life as we know it:

-We are here

-We are able to end it anytime we self wish, proving that it’s not an eternal state… it’s a (+), and we prove that the opposite (-) exists by saying just that… I experience (+), I choose to do (-) thus cancelling the equation…

-We have an “awake” state consisting of the most vivid and continous hallucination probably possible… at least for a wave-recieving and wave-sending system as ourselves…

-We have a “sleep” state consisting of a paralyzed dormant recouporation, or void if you will… (the feeling your tv “feels” when it’s beeing turned off, and the electricity escapes back to the socket from hence it came… it’s manifestation and purpose siezes to excist until it is turned back on again.)

…

Wherever (+) and (-) combust, there will be created a bordeline where these two meet… This we can call “0”, not 0 as in nothing… but 0 as in everything…

The state you experience in everything from light flurry dreams to ld’s and obe’s is along the “0” …

In typical human thinking terms, somewhere between (+) and (-) would be a decreasing state of awareness boardering on stupor… this is wrong, because “0” is not the merging of (+) and (-), It’s the summary of the equation the two represent… solving it, and therefore pushing the whole equation one level further… into realms where the previous + and - doesn’t even matter…

Ergo… the place where the focuspoint now lies is not somewhere between the old + and -, it’s rather somewhere within the place that spawned the equation that we have come to accept and label as “life” in the first place.

This place will feel familiar to all when experienced, because this is where our minds and “souls” originate from originally…

This place is reachable trough birth, meditation, ld’s, obe’s, drugs and death… only permanent change is trough birth and death (a +/- equation all on it’s own… basic knowledge we are programmed to know, therefore we can imediately recognize the identical but smaller (+/-) equations happening inside our own life… like man/woman, love/hate, good/bad and everything else…

You say “We will never know”…

Don’t you think it’s a slim possibility that we were born knowing?..

That maybe it’s the place inside you that your inspiration comes from… that old image buried in your soul, that you seldom talk to other people about, simply because you would think it irrelevant to them… and write it off as just old experienced life-imagery… though you do know each time you write it off that it’s really something else, you’re just unable to define it in any other earthly description than music, art, poetry… It all works as a catalyst to remind us where we come from and where we soon again will go…

I don’t know, but as I do believe that all humans are born more or less equal out of something… I think we all know this to be true inside ourself.

You are the key.

…sorry for a rather long 1’st post, but I kinda thought it as appropriate…

ehm… anyone? or did my +/- metaphors throw everyone off before finishing the 5 first lines of my post?

Hi Daimos

No, your post is quite good infact!
I will reply later, was already on my dutch dream forum writing a long post about obe and lds.

so some later then today ill reply to your post!
But dont worry its a good post!

Jeff

hehe… good or not good isn’t really imortant… it’s an entertaining thesis atleast…

yes obe’s always entertain and atract posts, thats true!

Well… the first time I had an obe, before learning how to separate consciousness in a somewhat effective manner, it was more frightening than entertaining but…

ahh, freakin’ come on! at least one relevant reply before the end of this year… Is that too much to ask?..

well yeh it is frightening for many, at first, but if you practise it and learn more about it, you will understand its just natural and cannot harm you in any way.

-stranger

yeah, I am aware of that… I was however refering to my universe-thesis on page 3

People rarely post in OBE threads here .

well… they should

From experience having conscious OBE’s and lucid dreams I believe the difference between the two is our level of conciousness. When we dream our subconcious mind still has a grip on our conscious mind which is why we create things so easily etc. In an OBE our conscious mind is at the front, like how what we see now is “real.”

When we consciously OBE it skips the falling asleep phase and our subconscious never gains the control that it does in dreams.

IMO both occur at exactly the same place.