Post Election Support Group

I unfortunatelly ahve to admit that its true. bush DOes have a (sLiGhtlY)higher amout of votes than Mr. Kerry >< >< >< >< >< >< >_<

I agree. I too hope Bush losses. However, I do not think Kerry is as weak as people think. Right now they are running neck and neck so he can’t be that weak. Until recently most people have not heard much from Kerry. Mainly because over the last month and ½ press coverage was focused on the republican convention and then florida got hit with 4 hurricanes.

While I believe Kerry won the debate he did not blast Bush as much as I thought he would. I think Kerry’s main intention in the first debate was to outline his plan for Iraq and the war on terror. Fortunately, the next 2 debates are on topics where Kerry polls stronger than Bush.

If you have not yet seen Michael Mores movie Fahrenheit911 it is coming out on tape tomorrow. I highly recommend people watch this movie. It is a documentary but, it is very powerful and will hold your attention.

It would be a shame if Blair lost reelection. He seems ok to me and I wish him the best of luck.

Well you totally missed my point and inferred things which I did not say. I did not in any way bash the armed services. They are awesome people who are well trained to do a difficult job. What I did critique was the armed services recruiting tactics and wether or not we truly have a volunteer army. It’s not volunteer when enlisting in many cases is your only chance for a future. In the wealthiest country in the world people should have more opportunities than that. It is also telling that the number of people who reenlist after their time is up is at an all time low. Again this is not against our brave soldiers but, how they are used and treated. They deserve better.

According to the U.S. census, there are 35.8 million Americans living below the poverty line. Including reservists, the U.S. military currently has 1.2 million people. Even assuming that every single man and woman in the military is below the poverty line (they’re not), only 3% of Americans below the poverty line choose to go into the military.

Clearly, the other 97% believe there are choices other than going into the military. Therefore, it is a mistake to say that living below the poverty line means you have no choice but to go into the military.

People enlist for a number of different reasons. Economic incentives are often among them (this is true of every profession). But this does not mean that the military is not voluntary. There is no draft. Anyone who does not wish to join the military can choose not to enlist, and no one will stop them from not enlisting.

It is hard to imagine how the U.S. military could be any more voluntary than it already is. Assuming the concept of an “all-volunteer army” can possibly exist, the U.S. military qualifies as one IMHO.

The first thing you have to understand about the statistic you just stated is that they are completely wrong. I won’t give you the hole lecture but I will give you some highlights . The US census bureau has not raised the Federal Poverty Rate since the early 60’s I believe. Also, the formula they use to determine how many people live in poverty is seriously antiquated. It does not take into account the cost of things like housing, child care, and of course health care just to name a few. Housing alone in most places takes up ½ of the average persons income (in some places more). So, basically what I am saying is that there are a lot more people living in poverty then you realize. (yes I am perfectly comfortable stating this as a fact. That is how confident I am about this issue. Anyway this is a bit off topic but, I’ll be happy to debate this in another thread if you wish) Don’t get me wrong I am not saying everything sucks. I am just saying things could and should be better.

While I agree that is true real life does not always work like that. You really need to see Fahrenheit911 it will hep you put this issue into a better prospective.

Anyone who takes anything in Fahrenheit911 to be true is the one who seriously needs a new prospective. Its been pretty much proven that most things in the movie are made up. The parts not made up, they just happened to leave out “some” of the facts.

Just because some people feel its their only chance for a better future doesn’t mean its that way for them all. Besides isn’t giving the poor a chance to make a decent living a good thing anyway?

Joining the army is like joining the police or becomming a fireman. I don’t see anyone saying people are forced into that. In a lot of cases police may risk their life even more than a person in the army.

The government doesn’t force anyone to join. And the government doesn’t make people poor. Personlly I would rather have someone join the army and EARN a living, than sitting on the street and the government hands them a check every week for being a bum.

Fifty-nine Deceits in Fahrenheit 9/11

Absolutely!! Kerry handled himself. Bush didn’t look as if he had been in the debate at all. I was embarrased for Bush and ended up turning off the television.

On a more comical side of politics. Way back when Bush was running for President, this comedy show called Saturday Night Live did a skit with Will Farrell call “Bush hunting”. Where our now president was out hunting with the former president (his dad). It was really funny. And Will played President Bush to a T. :content:

Loony… woot… :crazy: :cheer:

:spinning: :silent: HEEEEEEELLLLLPPPPPP! BUSH IS GOING TO WIN AGAIIIIN!!! :cry: :cry: :cry:

I somehow know bush will win by a close vote! hits her head to the padded wall hard

Stay posivite DM7!!! :wink: …and the rest who cheer 4 Kerry!!! :happy::smiley:

Yes even some republican commentators have said that Kerry looked more presidential and statesman like then Bush.

Tonight is the VP debate. Can’t wait to see how it turns out.

Form everything I have heard from non partisan sources nothing in the movie can be disproved. With that said I do not think you should believe every word of it either. However, the parts which I believe to be true do make some very important points.

Again the answer is yes and no depending on the situation. For example: My step father could have been anything he wanted. He could have been a doctor, a lawyer whatever. He had all educational options open to him. Yet, he choose to be a fireman. Why? Because it is what he always wanted to do. Not because it was the only job available. There are plenty of people who enlist for the same reason and that is good. However, We are the wealthiest country in the world and no citizens choices should be limited to enlist in the armed services or poverty.

Yet. :smile: People who turn 18 still have to register with the selective service. Why?

Sure it does.

As much as I would love to pounce on that statement it would likely spin this hole thread off topic. So I will bite my tongue for now but, look forward to having that debate another day.

So many ignorant post, So little time… :user:

Whats wrong with that? You said people who where so poor they had no choice but to join the army. Ok maybe not all of them are bums but you have to be pretty far down before your HAVE to join the army. I mean what do I make? 12,000 a year, now thats poor. I am not in the army though.

Basicly you would be down to where you can’t afford food before you have to join the army. What your really talking about is anyone below middle class because we are all poor. No one there HAS to join, they might want to because it offers them a better life, but how is that forcing anything?

And no the government doesn’t make people poor. To say they do is just stupid.

Also did you click that link? Theres a big list of things proven untrue about the movie.

I really think you should click on that link and read all the things listed as untrue. Then you can come back and say you think the movie is still mostly true.

I know how you feel. I am sooo tempted to educate but I will exercise restraint.

All you have to do is look at who wrote that site and why.

I am not saying that Michael Mores move is flawless. He is a person with an agenda and one should view his material with healthy skepticism. Even with that in mind, yes I do believe he made some important points in his movie that are worthy of our attention.

You might want to re think that one. I mean really think about it.

Anyway back to the election:

I watched the VP debate last night. As soon as it was over Fox immediately projected Cheney as the clear winner. Again, we must have been watching different debates. It seemed to be more of a stalemate to me with both sides holding their own against each other. I would say that they both did well. I don’t think either candidate really helped or hindered their running mate in any substantive way. Cheney scored a few hits about Edwards lack of experience in politics and Edwards attacked the questionable activities of Cheney when he was the VP of Hallaberton. Both drew blood on each other throughout the debate but, neither scored a knockout.

The next debate is on Friday between Kerry and Bush. This will be a town forum type of debate where the audience gets to ask the candidates questions. This is the one that bush did not want. Anyway it should be interesting!

Just look at who made the movie and why. It was made just to bash bush, but you went and watched that. Its only fair you go read that site. I kind of wonder how he can have an important point, if the base of the point and nearly everything supporting it is a lie.

All the government does is tax people but that hardly counts as making people poor, as you need to make money before you can pay any taxes.

I am kind of confused here. Moore makes a movie full of lies to bash bush but he has important points. A person makes a list but because he doesn’t like moore its not worth even reading. You think the government makes people poor but you bash parts of the government for hiring people and lifting them out of poverty. All the while you don’t even say why you think any of the stuff but just make vague posts saying something is wrong or right, then moving on to calling others names. I guess I see why so many people are for kerry now.

Alric wrote:

The government does way more than just tax people. And by enlisting in the service that doesn’t take anyone out of poverty. The government also restricts services and discontinues them. Those same services would assist those living in poverty to get a chance and get out of it. The choices that are made are for their benefit not really for that of the “people”.

Right now as far as the debate goes Kerry handled himself very well and bush looked to be unfocused and baffled. But neither of them actually brought up what the plan for Iraq is. We keep sending soldiers over and now they are starting to call people back into active duty that have been out for 10 years. If they don’t pull our soldiers out of Iraq in 6 months guess what, there’s going to be a draft. How else will the USA be able to do anything. George W. messed up with that war. Now that country has absolutely no order. Women/girls are being raped, kidnapped and killed every day.

I mean everyone wants to eradicate all possible threat to the US and it’s allies. But come one, If we can’t keep our own back yard clean why the hell are we cleaning up someone else’s. Especially when they like the disarry they live in.

I’m confused as to why Kerry is seen as the flip flopper. The only reason people think that is because bush’s propaganda forces it into your heads, because the polls told him that voters see him as more confident and decisive. Bwahaha this movie cracks me up:
clickums

Anyway, theres not gonna be a draft, so don’t get too stressed outl
-It wouldn’t pass in congress, and if it did there would be riots
-the people who introduced the bill, and who are backing it, are liberal (i think its just to scare people into voting for kerry)

after all, fear is the best way to control people
hitler knew it, bush knows it
kerry knows it too…
dun dun dunnnnnn
This is an interesting read
but he does get my vote, i’m on the “anyone but bush 2004” campaign

First I did in fact read the site. Unfortunately I found many of the “59 deceits in Fahrenheit 911" to be erroneous. Some I believe to be false as a matter of fact and others just can’t be proved either way. I applied a healthy skepticism to Michael mores movie considering (as I stated above)the fact that he is a person with an agenda. I only took from the movie the things that I found to be credible. I suggest you apply the same healthy skepticism to that site. If you honestly do so, I think you will see the “59 deceits” is no great bastion of truth.

Well as I said above I did read it. I read it when it was first posted. Have you seen seen Mores movie?

Well you are distorting what I said. I have not bashed the government about this. We live in the wealthiest country in the world and I beleive everyone should have more choices open to them. That is all I am saying. Nothing more and nothing less. I am simply saying that we can and should do better than we are.

Actually I think it was really just to make a point. Kind of like a protest vote. Noone expected it to pass. In fact it did not pass it was voted on and defeated yesterday.

That Reminds me of the Bush v Clinton race. Back then many people said they would vote for Micky Mouse over Bush.

So whens the 2nd part of the debate? :eh: