For all that think OBEs are real part II

Fascinating posts. I just got through the whole thing, it gave me alot to think about. Personally I’ve had a couple things I am terming as obes for now simply because they seem to be different. They could simply be a different state on consiousness in a ld.

I have come to the conclusion that it just doesn’t matter. For all I know the time I spend “asleep” is the true reality and this is all illusion. We only use about 9% of our brains, I doubt any of has percieved “reality”. Personally if I ever manage to use 100% of my brain and percieve true reality I hope there is a gun with at least 1 bullet at hand. My all time favorite quote describes how I feel pretty accurately.

“The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age.” The Call Of Cthulhu, H.P. Lovecraft

We arn’t ready to know the truth. We probably never will be. For me I prefer a quest for ignorance rather than truth. I truely fear the day my reality comes crashing down around and I discover the truth.

As for what is reality, it’s all real but none of it is. This is all as real as our senses can tell. Perhaps other beings percieve things differently and all things are different to them but we have only our senses to go by.

I better quit now, I’m really tired and fear I am making no sense. In fact at the moment I’m not sure I am awake, it all seems unreal to me. Either I am almost asleep at the keyboard or this is one really strange dream. Do you ever experience dream symptoms when you think you are awake? I think I am now, everything seems like I am looking through a really low quality monitor, all the pixils… goodnight.

I disagree that with the understanding of ourselves and our place in existence, there would come a great maddening depression. If it was revealed to me that my current opinion of life and history was accurate, I’d probably release a small nod in self-satisfaction and go about my life in much the same way as I otherwise would. Unless of course, it turns out that every word of Christianity was true - then I’d probably spend some time making an effort to pull myself away from my current hell-bound way of life. Let’s face it though, that isn’t going to happen.

I hate seeing this. It’s right up there with “Science will never know anything”. What, does that make religion automatically right by default? Of course not, at least science (as a collective group of people working to better our understanding of reliable physical fundamentals, NOT as the snarling anti-God ogre some people have associated the word with) is making an effort to satisfy some of the curiosity. A meaningless existence is one thing, but an existence in which we are simply not supposed to find the meaning is a whole new brand of urinal soap - and I’d have nothing to do with it.

Then there’s the other thing. The point that all this talk about ‘meaning’, ‘truth’ and ‘ignorance’ is actually heavily dependant on the existence of a governing deity. Who else can take you aside for a moment and explain to you the existence of all and everything? What else is there that we apparently are prevented from seeing? I get the impression that (as usual), the basis of that excerpt quoted by Legionaire was highly spiritual, and managed to ignore the possibility that perhaps there isn’t anything behind the curtain in the first place.

Anyway, I was planning on presenting a few of my more recent OBE-related arguments, but it looks like I’ve got work to do. This has been an interesting discussion so far, and I hope to see some more intriguing posts.

Regardless of the truth it would come as a shock to a large number of people. Spirituality is irrelevant. If the truth is that we are all just a freak accident do you have any idea how it could affect much of the world. Chances are there would be mass suicide among some religions as people whos lives were based on their religious beliefs realized everything they believed wasn’t true. Many people simply couldn’t handle that revelation. If one religion was right then all the other religions would come crashing down with the same effect as discovering there was no greater power. Finally if it were discovered that there were something that humans hadn’t thought of it would still cause the religions of the world to fall into chaos. Of course most people probably wouldn’t believe it even if there were proof to reinforce one beliefe or another.

Most people can adapt far better to physical things than having their beliefs, be they spiritual or scientific, questioned. You state two possibilities, nothing and christianity, there are far more possibilities than that. You say you would simply change if christianity were right but what if the truth were far different? Even if you could much of the world couldn’t. Things would calm down after a while but there would likely be alot of damage done first.

I don’t think that we are not meant to know the truth, I simply don’t think we are ready. I think that the truth, be it scientific or spiritual, could do too much damage to humanity as a whole to make the quest for it worthwhile at this time. Then again it isn’t likely that we will discover the truth, whatever it is, any time soon if ever (assuming there is a truth). By the time we do discover it, if we ever do, people and society may have changed to the point that it wouldn’t be so harmful.

I accept that any possibility of our existance could be true. There are simply more spiritual possibilities than scientific possibilities that I can think of, more to think about (probably a result of reading things by authors such as Lovecraft). I suppose because of this I am a bit more open minded to possibilities than those who rigidly lock their minds to thinking one way. If that is spiritual then fine. I simply admit that I don’t know, don’t pretend to, and am pretty afraid to.

It certainly may be that there is nothing behind the “curtain” as you put it, in fact there may not be a curtain. Talking about some ultimate truth will unfortunately sound spiritual. The truth could be that what you see as red I see as green. As for the truth about what happens after death the most welcome to me is to cease to exist, it’s also the hardest to imagine, not believe, just to imagine.

P.S. The quote wasn’t spiritual, it is from the greatest horror author of all time (in my opinion anyway). It’s the opening paragraph of one of his most famous stories.

After getting some sleep and then thinking about it I realized it seems kind of irrational for me to fear whatever any truth may be. I accept that I don’t know and that anything could be the truth. That being the case I can’t change it or affect regardless. If I have no control I should just accept that whatever is is and not worry about it. Still, I am only human, I behave irrationally sometimes and can’t help but feel some anxiety about it even though I know rationally I shouldn’t.

About obe’s being real from my personal experience I have found them to be. I have experienced a lot stuff with them that couldn’t have been hallucinations. I was able to identify a few remote objects with etheric projections which are much harder then astral projections but needed to view things like that in the physical world. Etheric projections are very hard to stay in and not slip into the astral and I usually have a lot of vision and paralysis problems with them.

When I was first trying to do it I had a more experienced projector that I met online come to my house and help me get out and I didn’t see him once I was out but the next day when I talked to him online and he accurately described my house and everything in my room. I’ve also had some things happen to me like being conscious in more then 1 mind at a time with all of them thinking separate thoughts simultaneously and that isn’t like anything I’ve ever experienced before. It’s very common for me when I’m leaving my body to be seeing through 2 different sets of eyes at the same time which can be very confusing.

I would recommend this guide by Robert Bruce which explains AP really well:
astraldynamics.com/guides/oobe/oobe.htm

I posted my astral experience on the thread in the Dream Diary section entitled “Victory of the Hellhounds”, which unlike yours was seemingly real and in real time. Everything in my room was as it should have been. I am not saying I had a true AP, but only that it was different than my LD experiences.

If there is anyone here that can AP and is unsure that it’s real there are a few things that you can do to prove it to yourself though it can take some time because it will probably require an etheric projection which is difficult.

1. Tape a random playing card that you don’t look at or setup by someone else on a window so the # can only be seen from the other side, then project and try to look at the other side to identify it and once you see it verify it in the physical. The card could also be placed on a high shelf.

2. Setup a meeting with another projector and see if you both remember the experience later.

3. Fly to an area of town or another city you haven’t seen before and look around so you have a good idea of what it looks like then go there later in the physical to verify what you saw. This is probably the easiest method.

Traveller:

This is exactly why I think people are underestimating their subconscious mind. When you tape a playing card to a window, even without realizing it, there is a chance your subconscious mind was able to track the card and predict which one it was based on where it was in the deck - even if it was shuffled.

Also, flying to an area of your town you haven’t seen before is equally flawed. It’s highly likely you’ve seen your entire city somewhere, even in the most obscure photo on the wall of your library. You just don’t realize it because it’s not available to your conscious memory.

About the card thing the idea of it is to identify a card that your subconscious mind couldn’t possibly know. If your extremely carefull about not seeing the other side of the card there is no way your subconscious will know what it is. About predicting it from the position in the deck that is highly unlikely if it’s shuffled well several times without looking at any of the other cards but to aviod anything like that it’s best to have a friend carefully shuffle and place the card so there is no way for you to see it. I did this one a few times which is hard but I had a friend set the card up in the next room which I didn’t access to be sure that I had no way of knowing the other side of the card. The point is I had no possible way of knowing what that card was in the physical I didn’t even see the deck which was shuffled and that’s how it should be setup.

With flying to another area you do it with a place that you couldn’t have been to where there is no question about that. If you have doubts about a place in your city go to a different city that you have never seen for sure. It’s also a good idea to try going into a public building that you have never been in then go back the next day. Anyone can find a place that they have never seen before it’s not possible for your subconscious mind to know what every place around you looks like then for it to miracuously recall the location in detail when you dream it.

One more thing you make it sound like the subconscious can perceive everything accurately, just saying if it was real you’re making it look like it’s impossible to test because the subconscious can supposedly figure this all out. If you set it up well so your mind has no possible way of seeing or guessing something remote then there is no way that the information about it will be in your subconscious mind.

I was atheist before I started obe’ing and proving it to myself so I am very skeptical about this and extremely thorough and careful when I test it myself. I have identified many things that I couldn’t have possibly perceived without being separate from my physical body but I’m not trying to convince people of my experiences I’m just trying to suggest ways that they can test it first hand. If people test these sort things while setting it up carefully that should be enough proof for them. Whether science thinks it’s proven or disproved those are only words the only way for people to know is to open up there minds and try these types of experiments themselves because seeing is believing while actual experience always beats out those words and personal opinions.

You just explained exactly WHY I don’t think it’s possible. Unfortunately for most people, seeing IS believing. This is a sad reality, because much of what you see in fact does NOT originate from the physical world. People are quicker to attribute visions of future events or alternate situation outcomes to spiritual insight, and never mere subconscious hallucinations. It’s dangerous, and it’s degrading.

You’ve already demonstrated that you have absolutely NO idea what the mind is capable of, so I’m not going to bother trying to change your opinion. Some people accept the all-answering, perfect solution to any uncertainty and call it spirituality. Others search for the facts, and eventually find them. We can’t always see how something works straight away, but eventually (thus far) everything always falls into a logical and reasonable compliment to existing physical parameters.

For example, it’s possible (in theory) that some of the OBE experiments were actually demonstrations of telepathy, where the subject was experiencing a lucid dream using information available from the thoughts emitted from the nearby experimenters to obtain information about the objective room. It’s not sound, but at least it’s plausible. Although, considering the number of participants to each of those experiments that remain skeptical even after a demonstration, I’m certain there is more to it that we’re not being told. Quite simply, there would be nothing to debate if that quote of yours from the ‘OBEs’ thread was unquestionably true. OBE would be fact, spirituality (and by inheritance religion) would be globally accepted. But they’re not - so I suspect that report was highly exaggerated to look better on paper.

In this we are silencing the silence
such a sound of sweetness
In this moment of silence
it is such a distintive sound

Enjoy!

Im so excited about this topic I couldnt wait to read all the replies to post my own. Though I have no way to prove it, I have no doubt that O.B.Es are real for the simple fact that me and my sister a had simultaneous O.B.E. as kids. Me and my sister were watching a miniseries by Shirley McClaine on t.v. called out on on a limb some 15 years ago or so. I dont remember every single detail about the experience because it was so long ago. But I do remember sitting indian style on the floor in a dark living room when we seemed to float upwards through the ceiling and into the night sky. As I noticed my house getting smaller and smaller in the distance I noticed a thin thread that seemed to be attached to my house. But as we rose higher I started to grow fearful of not being able to get back home and before I knew it I was back sitting in front of the T.V.

Over time time I seemed to block out the events of that night until recently
when my research on the subject made me realize exactcly what happened that night. Niether one of us were sleep when this happened so I know that lucid dreaming isn`t the only way to have an O.B.E., So I remain hopefull that I will reach this state again one way or the other.

The first thing I would do if I got an OOB experience would be look at my alarm clock, remember the time, look away, look again, remember the time, and when I wake up I look at the clock to see if the time in the OOB was correctly compared to IRL time. Is that a good test to see if the OOB is real?

Okay, I got some examples of AP and you can judge yourself.

OBE=AP I believe

My first two APs happened like lucid dreams. I was quite interested in In Ap, but was trying to get LD downpat before going into it deeply. I researched it alot and got alot of info from a friend who did it naturally.
Well anyway, I was in my bed(sorta of) and “woke” up. I decided to test if this was a dream and I noticed that it felt like RL before I even touch the lamp(touch activated). It didn’t work, and I can’t remember if my hand hit it or went through it, but I was floating the next moment above my body. I thought this was a lucid dream due to the light check and it was definately REAL fealling, I noticed everything in the room seemed different and was sorta darkened, I felt that darkness was collapsing on me. I soon Woke up and decided to try to re-enter the same dream(I forgot the acronym ). I was in the same situation and was beginning to feel the same way with everying darkening out. I decided that would spin around to keep the "dream afloat. It’s work for me before but in this case, It DID absolutely nothing. I also saw my body below me while spinning(which later led me to question if this was a LD). When I woke up I felt vibrations all over my body.

This could have been a lucid dream or a AP, but the one thing that brings me to believe this might have been a AP, is that The spinning trick to keep dreams afloat did absolutely nothing(it seemed to actually be counter effective) and the vibrations afterwards. I heard that in AP, if you get far away from your body, you could get sucked back in. Well I didn’t really move away since I was too amazed by what I was doing.

Second, my friend happens to be a Natural LD and AP person. I’ve checked up what she said and it checked out. Plus she was quite uncomfortable talking about it and it would be quite hard to fake her face expressions(she eventually got more comfortable). Well anyway, she pretty much explained nearly everything about AP(LD she knew too, but since she did it naturally, she didn’t know how to teach me it). As for her AP actually influences real life, she could go to something called the akashic records while on the AP and look up the future or past. She told me about 2 encounters with the Akashic records which turned out to be true the next day. Okay, it relies on trust, but given how she knew her stuff completely and was able to explain all the dimensions to me I think could give her the benefit of a doubt.

Personally I think they are real or at least something different from LDs. If they were a regular LD but just different, wouldn’t exprienced LD folk be able to get out of the AP senario and do other stuff?

While in the library, I happened to come across a paraphsycology encyclopedia and under the section dealing with AP, it gave a few tests done to prove it. One involved setting off some Highly senstive motion dectetors, another invovled using a Ap to calm a cat down miles away and stop it from purring, and one invovled the ol’ come back with the info on this card miles away. All the tests Succeeded, and btw using a card to determine if AP is real doesn’t work depedning on how long the card is there. I heard that the reason why some things appear weird or new things appear while AP, is due to previous Mental “residue”. If a couch was in the same place for 20 years and later moved. While AP’ing, you could see the couch still there due to everyone being used to it being there. As for new items, they don’t show up too clearly.

Personally, I find the spinning technique to be a very efficient method of waking up prematurely, or at least losing the lucidity. I’ve said it before, and I’ll certainly say it again - the spinning technique is definitely not for everyone.

In addition to that, the rest of the dream seemed (to me, at least) like a classic lucid dream. The environment was untrue to real life (“Astral distortion?” not likely), and attempts to interact with the world proved unpredictable, and unrealistic.

It might just be me, but surely an actual AP/OBE would provide you with a perfectly clear and realistic view of the world - taking into account item positions and light levels. What you describe, sounds like something straight from the imagination.

I should have explained it alitle bit more detailed.
Actually it was just like my room, but a little muddy vision-wise(then again my room is dark at night and it was dark during this Dream or OBE). If it was a lucid dream, it would be a very high quality lucid dream, Everything was in it’s place and it just ended really fast. Also it ended by the means of a AP ended and not a normal lucid dream ending. I was simply recollecting and thinking of how I got here, followed by a slow blackout 10 seconds later. I sorta felt fearful I can imagine this could end a lucid dream, But since I jumped back in and prepared myself to not be afraid or too jumpy, there really isn’'t any reason the dream would end the same way as before(I was using lucid dreams techniques becuase I thought I was lucid dreaming). Only thing I can imagine ending a dream like that would be being too close to the body imediatly after AP. As for the spinning technique, I used it more than once and it’s worked great before. Can it’s effectiveness change and lessen in different dreams?

That’s an interesting question. I’ve never really had success with it, but then, I don’t do it when the LD is already high level. I usually only resort to methods like this when I sense everything coming to an end. Perhaps it works differently depending on the dream.

It may surprise some people, but the brain is actually a very extraordinary device. At all times, it contains a very accurate map of your surroundings. This is how people can do seemingly anything when they sleepwalk - simply because their internal map is so extremely accurate and detailed. We can also see this when lucid dreaming, particularly when you find yourself in a familiar environment that you can compare to the RL version.

Atheist, it is obvious to me and to you that running circles around the issue will not prove or disprove anything. If the world or whoever claims they are real it will not make a difference yet again to me or to you. Truth seekers alike, I propose you get to the point and verify it for yourself with purpose to either prove or disprove the nature of OBEs. The best way to do is involves giving it a completely fair set of trials. I believe you are talented enough to achieve this out of body state and complete clarity of mind when beyond the senses to conduct a specific test; anything that will satisfy, for yourself, a knowledge beyond the subconscious, logic, and the senses which can be verified right upon waking while keeping probability to a minimum. There are plenty of methods for inducing an OBE and the vibrational state, and you are well aware of what LDs feel like so aim not for a dream or WILD experiment but of one that feels most like an experience out of the body. If you must, read Astral Dynamics to know exactly what to achieve and how, to conduct the test in. Remember, giving it a most fair experiment will bring you closer to the truth for yourself, whatever that may be.

Hello, I’m Technodreamer.

I followed the steps on https://www.psychics.co.uk/astraltravel/obeexperiment.html I started to feel my eys were sort of twitching. I saw some white light, even though my eyes were closed. It wasn’t very purple tinted, as some OBEers sugest. I wasn’t sure what to do next. I just sat there focusing on the light and imagining my body lifting away from my physical body. Do I have to wait or should I try move my arm.

I felt as though I could lift my arm out as though completely weight less. Id didn’t hear noises either. I’m I paranoide or am I on the right track?

Technodreamer