Why we often have difficulty remembering our dreams

I was just browsing through this morning’s batch of questions from aspiring newbies, and something occurred to me. While the standard response from an experienced member usually contains the appropriate solution (undoubtedly a popular technique for the specific case at hand), it’s often presented generically. It lacks technicality. Sure, rubbing your hands helps the dream to remain stable, but why is this so? We’re distributing the most effective and practical advice, but it’s not always apparent how the particular technique is actually going to work.

It might just be me (wouldn’t be the first time), but I like to go a bit further and find out comprehensively how things work, and likewise, why they don’t. Anyway, a veteran topic that continually reemerges is memory. More specifically, why is it so hard for some people to remember their dreams?

The simple answer is that memory and consciousness work together. Before that makes sense, we need to look at the 2 fundamental tasks of memory: Retrieving and Storing.

As you might know, memory works on the basis of association. In order to retrieve something from memory, you have to ‘find’ it by tracing a string of associated memories until you arrive at the required information. This isn’t as obvious in the case of proficiently memorized information, like names (where the association is much stronger than some arbitrary detail), but it does still occur - it’s just been transformed into a subconscious routine.

Anyway, we can witness this association even without intentionally searching for some distant memory. Think of a song you listened to yesterday. Nothing specific, just the first one that comes to mind. Without realizing, you’ll probably also be able to picture what you were doing while you were listening to it, and where you were. These other bits of information are stored and ‘linked’ to that song, so you inadvertently recall these useless details automatically.

You don’t have a choice in what becomes linked to what, but you can use it to your advantage. In a more on-topic example, reality checks are designed to be associated with some common daily activity so you always remember to do them. If you suddenly think to question your state each time you see a dog, you’ll have a greater chance of doing this automatically in a dream. Developing the association between RCs and dogs is the tedious part - but it’s just an example.

If you let them, these associations will go on forever. For example, someone might say “Picture a cat”. Presumably, you’d then think of a cat. If you have a cat, you might see your cat. You might then be reminded of something that your cat did recently, or that you plan to do with it in the future. If this includes buying something for it, you might suddenly start thinking about money, which might lead you to remember you were going to withdrawal some cash from the bank later today. All from thinking of a cat. These memories aren’t directly linked, but if you follow the association string long enough, you’ll eventually find anything.

You’ve all been the proud owner of a memory for quite a number of years, so I’m probably not telling you anything new. In summary, the above describes how memories are retrieved from the brain. Unlike computers, which use an address to represent each available location, our memories are scattered, unbound, and can only be accessed by following associated links.

Now, the key to why we don’t remember dreams comes in the next part - storage.

Everything that happens to you during the day will be stored in memory, and linked involuntarily to whatever else was happening at that moment. Unless something unusual happens, most of it won’t even make the transition from temporary (short-term) to permanent (long-term) memory. Short-term memory only holds information for a brief moment (usually only a few minutes) until something else replaces it. I didn’t want to use the term ‘replace’ there, because it implies the old memory is overwritten, which isn’t the case. Instead, the old memory never establishes a link to an ‘anchor’ memory, and so is lost, isolated, in your mind.

Turning short-term memories into long-term, or permanent memories, is a conscious activity! This is the key to the problem of why we don’t recall dreams easily. If you don’t consciously turn the dream memories into long-term memories as soon as you wake up, they’ll likely be lost forever. It’s not unheard of to suddenly recall a dream several days later - it just indicates that at least some connection still existed from an obscure reference.

I usually average 5 to 8 dream memories per night, and as I’ve said before, this is due to waking up several times during the night. If you sleep 8 hours without waking up at all during that period, you’ll probably only remember the dreams that occurred in the last 30 minutes. You might remember something from earlier (it’s not a perfect system that works to the clock) - but it’d be safe to bet the most vivid memories were from only a short time ago.

The actual process of consciously processing your dreams upon waking is responsible for converting those memories to long-term storage. This action builds additional associations to the memories, and grounds them to something solid. Writing them down in your journal builds even more. Even if you never read back over them, the simple action of writing something down invokes a conscious intention to develop long-term links to that memory.

Well, that’s my theory. As usual, leave a comment if you want to discuss it further.

Yeah i agree with what you say. It sounds reasonable that the state of mind while we store the memory affects the recall. And it is also reasonable to say that we recall things by association. Several times i have looked at an object and remembered a whole dream because of it. Something to exploit these things which has probably been mentioned before is to try to have a dream about an obscure action like say poking your finger through your other hand. This also serves as a RC if you try in RL. It creates an association that when you think of it and if you have had a dream with it it is more likely that you will remember the dream if you think of that action.
But the one thing missing is the state of mind. Any idea how we can actually change the state of mind while you dream rather than when you wake up? If we can change this i think we should be able to remember all the dreams from the night. I wonder if drinking things that make you more awake could help like coffee or something else with caffiene?

I would think lucidity in the dream combined with actively thinking while you are dreaming that you want to remember it is that missing state of mind… and what we’re all trying to get more of.
I wonder if those who LD more frequently than I can comment on whether they perceive that being lucid and wanting to solidify the memory is very helpful for dream recall.
I dunno about the caffeine… in my experience, a sufficient amount of caffeine will keep me from falling asleep more than anything else. I guess that if you could get the right amount and it were to wake you periodically so that you could try to recall dreams throughout the night, that might help, but I think that drinking a bunch of water (so that you need to wake up to use the restroom) is probably the easiest way to have the effect of waking up, but still being able to get to sleep.

Peace,
Sruthan

As a complete aside, I am not around as often as I used to be but congrats on becoming a moderator Atheist.

Good post Atheist:)
Tho the question remains-how to use our knowledge about how memory works towards better memory of the dreams?How to train our memory to remember night stuff same way like we remember day stuff?cuz theres quite big gap between those two.
So far we only know two ways- write down all we could remember and set our intention.I wish someone found out something more helpfull cuz even tho those two are not bad we still struggle with it.
I personally think about hypnosis,to be more specific- about posthipnotic suggestion.One day ill do it and report:)
take care

Thanks LostBoy. I was wondering if you’d come back after noticing a couple of your recent posts. I hope you find the time to post regularly again - you always provided useful information from your varied experiences.

Alex, that missing state of mind you’re referring to is lucidity. Lucidity is consciousness, and without it, memories are only stored temporarily. From an evolutional viewpoint, I guess it makes sense that we usually aren’t proficient at remembering NDs. If they were as vivid in our mind as anything form RL, we’d probably be confusing dream-memories for reality all the time.

Jack, indeed that is the important question here. The dilemma indicated in the initial post is that memories cannot be stored permanently in the absence of consciousness. It requires conscious attention to convert a memory from temporary to permanent, so generally this can only occur either while lucid, or awake.

This is evident when you observe the average person who doesn’t take a particular interest in dreaming. Upon waking in the morning, you’ve got about 20 to 30 minutes to quickly scan your short-term memory for dream fragments, piece them together and store them permanently. If you fail to do this, chances are the memory will be lost forever. It’s not even something you realize that you’re doing – the mere process of consciously thinking about something assists with storing that memory long-term. If you’re fortunate enough to become conscious during the dream, you can start doing this right away and ensure the memory will still be vivid when you awaken.

I’d love to hear the results of your experimentation with hypnosis, Jack. Particularly if it might provide some help with recalling non-lucid dreams.

I know that lucidity would give you that state of mind, but i was thinking that you might be able to have that state of mind without actually becoming lucid, hence the caffiene. i think it would just wake up your mind a little so it could store things more easily, but i haven’t tried it yet.
I wonder if we can actually have the lucid state of mind without being lucid.

It’s an interesting idea Alex, and it does fit with the next part of this study, light vs heavy sleeping.

It’s a fair assertion that people who sleep lightly seem to be more successful recalling their dreams than those who sleep more heavily. This seems to indicate two possibilities: Sleeping lightly allows your memory to more effectively store dreams, OR deep sleep actually suppresses REM activity.

Can anyone comment on this?

From my experience i think the first option: “Sleeping lightly allows your memory to more effectively store dreams” seems to be correct, because i have had some nights where i have slept deeply and i have still remembered the same amount of dreams as light sleep, but it is more difficult. The lighter the sleep the easier it is to remember, but the deeper it is the harder it is, but i can still get the same amount of dreams and the same quality of dreamvison.

That is a very good theory as far as I am concerned, Atheist. When I apply it to my experiences with dream memory, it explains alot. However, we could still break the topic down into finding an explanation for the way our dream memory seems to get “cut off” as soon as we begin to move around. It has something to do with the dream state, or how relaxed we are… I have some support for this.

In my experience, I find that going to a relaxed state, almost to the point that one could use WILD, dreams from the past few days can be remembered easier. I have been able to recall more dreams by doing this. Usually I can use this to strengthen the memory of a dream I am aware I had, but sometimes I come across a dream in my memory I never knew about. Perhaps entering into a dream-like state can help reclaim the lost fragments of dream memory. Still, what makes this state of mind so different from the completely wakeful state? In addition, I am not sure if this explains why the dream memory is lost when we wake up.

As far as how heavy one sleeps effecting dream recall, I find that I have more vivid lucid dreams when I am sleeping lightly. Keeping that in mind, it might make it easier to make the associations required to form a long-term memory. I am not sure if the same thing happens in NL dreams.

My initial thoughts on this particular phenomenon were simply that upon getting up and moving around, we would become distracted and throw away the scant few minutes we had to recover and store the memories of our dreams. Even if perhaps not so strictly bound to time, the very action of getting up would almost certainly divert your attention away from trying to remember your recent dreams. You’d automatically assume any number of preset ‘routines’, and ultimately you throw away the opportunity to reliably access what’s in your short-term memory before it’s lost, or more importantly, before you change to a state where the association is lost.

I think this is again due to association. By putting yourself in a position or state similar to that of when your dream was actually occurring, it’s more likely that you’ll be able to trace the association back to the appropriate area of memory. For example, you may be unable to recall the tune of a particular song that you haven’t heard for a while, but when you run over some of the lyrics in your mind, the tune comes right back.

In your example quoted above, it may be that putting yourself in the same position as you were in when the dream occurred, helped your mind locate the previously lost memories that were associated with that position. It thinks “Hey, last time I was laying right here like this, I experienced a dream in which…” etcetera. This comes back to the required ‘trigger’ memory mentioned in the initial post above.

I don’t actually believe that memories are technically ‘lost’ as much as it might seem. Perhaps the only association to a particular event in memory is some obscure reference that you aren’t likely to reach without some help, but the memory is still physically there.

Without conscious attention, dreams that exist in short-term memory will probably still be available to remember at a later date - they just won’t be organized effectively for quick retrieval. Consciously recalling your dreams in the morning will allow you to store them with some extra information, like whatever you were doing at the time of remembering it, and what you may have been reminded of while you were playing over it in your mind.

Think back to a dream that you had recently, and more specifically, one that you were consciously able to reflect upon after waking up. Notice how you might now also remember some of the various thoughts you had while you were thinking over it? A good example would be a dream I had last night. I dreamt that I was in a nearby shopping plaza to my workplace, but everything was arranged differently. When I woke up, I thought back over the dream, and made a few idle remarks to myself concerning various aspects of it. Now, 3 hours later, when I think back to the dream I had this morning, I’m also reminded of those remarks I made when I woke up. This is because they were stored with strong associations to the dream itself, and thinking of one will lead me to think of the other. These are ‘trigger’ memories, and it’s the fact that I was consciously pondering the dream that allowed them to be created and linked.

Now, since I’ve just referenced that dream in this post, I’ve just created even MORE triggers to recover the memory from. If I ever find myself unable to remember what I dreamt of this morning, I can simply think back to this article, and chances are the dream will come flooding back.

The point of all this is to demonstrate that without conscious attention, dreams won’t be provided with any additional links or triggers for future retrieval. In your case, you’ve managed to find a reliable link that didn’t necessarily require conscious attention, because it links to the position you were in rather than what you were thinking at the time. Dreams are different to other daily activities because they exist only in your mind, and they all take place when you’re doing the same thing - sleeping. This makes it hard for other coinciding events to subconsciously create links to them, because nothing else was really happening at the time.

It occurs to me that I could go on now for hours, so I think I’ll stop here. The point I’m trying to make is that all memories are linked to something, but traditionally dreams don’t provide any reliable links for future recovery unless you put the links there yourself, by thinking about the dream when you wake up, or writing it down in your journal (the act of writing itself affirms the memory, so it’s not even really necessary to read back over it usually). In your example above, you’re taking advantage of one of the links that are always created, and just by assuming the same position that you were in when you had the dream, your memory is saying “Look, all this stuff turned up when I followed the links leading from what you’re doing now, which is lying down in a relaxed state of mind.”

I hope that makes sense.

I have never used the rub hands technique or spin around. Because i dont need to, i seem to stay lucid once im lucid. Maybe because its so vivid. But i dont usually wake up straight away when i know im dreaming, i stay dreaming or lucid for quite a period of time, like the same lengths of my normal dreams sometimes longer, does anyone know why this is?

I get it… You are saying that we seem to lose the memory of the dream when we wake up because we don’t bring it to long term memory in time. As far as why we are limited in the time we have to remember, you are saying it is because we change the state of mind that the dreams occured, and hence lose the chance to bring the thought to long term memory. Is that right? Or is it at least in the ball park?

As far as the state of mind we are in when we dream, you relate that to a kind of association. In other words, the associations don’t just occur with thoughts, they also occur with a situation or state of mind. That’s interesting… I kind of figured that memories are linked to a situation, but I never considered that they could be linked to a state of mind.

My_Own_Neo:
I don’t know how you are able to do that… you’re lucky though. There are many people out there that have trouble with prolonging lucid dreams, including myself. I guess it might have something to do with dream stability. I have heard of ways to make dreams stable; like you mentioned, rubbing hands and spinning, and explainations about why these methods work. However, as far as why you don’t need these methods to prolong lucid dreams… I don’t know of any theory, sorry.

There doesn’t necessarily have to be a difference. Any time something happens to you, a memory is created containing links to absolutely everything that you were experiencing at the time. For example, if you think back to when you were eating breakfast this morning, you’ll probably be suddenly reminded of everything else that was happening at that moment. You’ll remember where you were, what you were eating, perhaps what song was on the radio – basically anything that was happening at the time. This includes what you were thinking, and even how you were feeling.

Using the example I proposed a few posts earlier, any one of these ‘tied’ experiences, or memories, can trigger you to remember any of the others. For instance, if you hear a song on the radio now, which you’ve only heard once before, you’ll almost certainly be spontaneously reminded of what you were doing, and where you were at the time that you first heard it. I use songs a lot to describe this, because they represent something that most people can easily remember, and that aren’t often ambiguous (ie. You’ll almost always remember that you’ve heard it before, even if only once, and even if quite some time ago).

So, in your example, the experience of laying in a certain position (or positions) and approaching a sleepy state of mind might be useful for triggering memories of other experiences that are linked to that position, such as dreams.

Most of this I’m just piecing together from personal experience, and what I’ve learned during a recent 2-day speed-reading and memory course I attended out of particular interest. It makes sense to me, and I’m interested in reading what other’s think. If you don’t get what I’m proposing, then it’s probably due to my inability to explain things without going into a tediously large amount of detail.

I think I get it, and the extra details do help to make it clear. However, I am just picking it appart in my mind… it’s Situation Versus State-of-Mind, at least that is how I am seeing it. You said that there doesn’t neccessarily have to be a difference. With that in mind, I am just pointing out that there could infact be a difference. Whether this is significant or not, I don’t know. Clearly the two are meshed together… but it might still be important to recognize them both as seprate entities, and this could help us figure out what exactly causes these memories to be recalled. Do you see what I mean. Well, I hope I wasn’t rambling.

Edit: Perhaps, our mind’s state has nothing to do with it. It seems that some states of mind are reached only through certain situations.

I’m not claiming that situation and state of mind are the same thing, but for intensive purposes, they can largely be related when discussing memory. People can generally remember what it is to experience a particular emotion, and equally, these circumstances tend to alter your state of mind in a unique and identifiable fashion. In other words, along with all other concurrent influences, emotion is stored and linked in memory. Think back to the last time you were particularly unhappy, and you’ll probably recall many of the other influencing factors that were taking place at the time same – simply because they were all stored and tied to that feeling as you were experiencing it. Additionally, re-experiencing this or another emotion could trigger any number of associations automatically, and you might find yourself thinking about what was happening last time you felt this way.

Without deviating from the point too much, let’s look again at your example. You mention that when lying in bed, about to go to sleep, you tend to be able to remember previous dreams more easily than when performing any other task during the day. I suggest that this is because you’re essentially re-experiencing one of the situations that your mind neatly stored away with those dream memories themselves. So, by putting yourself into that position again (disregarding state of mind for the moment), your brain ‘discovers’ a set of links that were installed last time, and manages to trace them to this otherwise reclusive and lost information.

Whether this ‘state of mind’ that you refer to is actually circumstantially dependant, and hence relative to the situation, or not, doesn’t really matter to us here. Any and all of this information can be linked to memory, and it’s then just a matter of setting up a similar occurrence to trigger the relative memories. To remember an important idea you had a few hours ago, it helps to trace back what you were thinking about at the time, in the hopes that the link will again trigger the resulting thought or idea when you reach the same specific topic.

I can actually provide an example of this from this morning. A co-worker in this office came in explaining that he’d remembered something important about the system we’re developing, but for the life of him, he couldn’t recall hours later what it was. I asked what he was thinking about at the time, which could have lead to this urgent discovery. He traced back through what we was doing, and then over what he began thinking about, and moments later he arrived at the same idea, and presented it to us. You can see examples of this everywhere, if you’re looking for them.

I agree, it seems that the distinction between state of mind and situation isn’t that important to us. I just wanted to take that into consideration, so that there wouldn’t be any factors left out. Like I said in my last post, the two often go together anyway.

That was very interesting to read.

Now I understand why, when waking up, it is very useful to let your mind wonder through situations and feelings you have experienced lately, or think of people you were in contact with. There’s a good chance you’ll dream of something which occupied your mind, so, when you think of such things, there’s a chance you’ll “hit” an association and thus, recall a dream.

And that kinda proves what you had described at the beginning of your post, that it’s important to know WHY do some methods work and some don’t. This surely helped me understand why this method works, and I shall try to use it more frequently now.