What my friend thinks on LD's...

Tell your friend to have a lucid dream. The kind of consciousness you have in an ld is so different to a regular dream, the feel is so different, that clearly they are genuine.

I got a couple of skeptical friends to try it and they came away as pleased with their ld’s as I did.

Quite frankly i don’t really care what your friend thinks (that sound rude wasn’t meant to) Had he ever actually had an LD then i would be willing to hear him out, but since he’s saying it’s not real yet has never experienced it firsthand then his argument has no ground to stand on.

To me that’s just the same as saying Austrailia doesn’t exsist because i haven’t been there. While i’m not discounting the possibility he is correct i am just not willing to take seriously someone who has never experienced that which they are trying to disprove.

your friend hasnt had a lucid dream? then how the hell would he even know what its like?

Ive had LD’s, so I know and am 100% sure, that you reall do have control of the dream. This is because you dont think the same way in a LD, than in a ND. You think differently, more logically.

In a LD you know you are dreaming right…So your friend thinks, that in a dream that you know you are dreaming, you are dreaming of KNOWING you are dreaming? lol sounds crazy,

-stranger

well, that does happen. We call them “False lucid dreams.” It’s not rare to hear stories of dreaming about lucid dreaming AND not be lucid. hahaha, confusing but true. :wink:
Lucidity is marked by an obvious increase of awareness, and the wide scope of perspective we are use to when awake.

Hi DreamAddict,

I never thought of it like that! although can you explain with an example?

because i dont fully understand how its possible

thx!!
-stranger

Yes, I think that when you awake, you can know that you had an LD, because you felt the feeling of thinking, more than acting (as is in normal dreams).

Once one have lucid dream he havn’t any doubts about its realness anymore.

I think the way you can tell the difference between a LD and a FLD is if you actually made decisions and followed through with them (or at least tried to-many have tried to fly and failed in lds). In normal dreams it is more like you are watching a tv show, in lds you are participating in them as an actor. But, i am not 100% sure that this is definitive that this means you have control, but i think if you have had the experience where you think you were in control then why care if you didn’t because it is fun anyway.

Well, if you need “instructions” how to decide wether you had a LD or a FLD, you probably either had no LDs or no FLDs so far. When you experience both it´s usually quite obvious.
The way you talk about LDs, and considering the fact how fascinated you are about them, I think that all users in here who don´t know how to identify a FLD simply only had “real” LDs.
(Ok, to differ between a real low-lucid dream and a FLD can be difficult).

Of course I can be wrong since I only know about my own feelings…

In a FLD, you have the knowledge that you are dreaming, yet you aren´t lucid. Usually, noticing that you are dreaming is accompanied by a change in counciousness (and often percpetion changes as well). This is often called “to awake in ones dream”.
In a FLD, you notice that you are dreaming, but still your dream-counciousness (or whatever you like to call it) is in full control. You recognize that you are dreaming, but this doesn´t cause you to wake up in your dream.

Unfortunately you can never tell for sure wether someone who´s describing a dream to you had a LD or a FLD, since the actions and thoughts can be exactly the same, but the feeling and state of counciousness is different.

tapir

Consciousness is an experience. If you’re consciousness there are signs of it that can be picked up by others (such as being able to send REM messages that would be virtually impossible to send if you were not conscious), but ultimately it is something that you can only “prove” to yourself by experiencing it.

Posts from a previous topic:

[color=darkblue]Lunatic[/color]: Ive had 5 seconds of a lucid dream before and I am not a disbeliever…

But a thought came to mind wich made me think. What if lucid dreams are just dreams? Maybe we think about them so much that we have a dream in wich we think we are in control and have free will. :eek:
:help: Can anyone argue with this?

[color=darkblue]fear[/color]: well then does it really matter either way you do what you wanted to do.

[color=darkblue]Lunatic[/color]: well I guess its good either way, but it would really cut down my facination of it… :neutral:

[color=darkblue]Tomas[/color]: Those dreams definitely exist, but so does the real ones… :smile: After a few lucid dreams, you really learn to know the difference between false and real ones…
In high level lucid dreams my consciousness is exactly as when awake… I think normally, memory is working, i know exactly where my real body is and so on…
When doing for example WILD, you even loose conscioiusness to start with, no blackout or anything…

Lucid dreams definitely exist… :happy:

(some offtopic stuff about astral projection…)

[color=darkblue]dreamwalker[/color]: A dream is a dream. A LD just means you are aware you are dreaming
:smile:

[color=darkblue]pav[/color]: As LaBerge says, dreams seem so real because to dreamer they ARE real, so you can enjoy them as much as RL. And you are conscious, although it’s a bit lower level than in waking life.

[color=darkblue]Argus[/color]:

Then why dont you try to sleep again when in a lucid?
And then in that other lucid that you get sleep again
and again and again and again?

See were you get that way.

[color=darkblue]r3m0t[/color]:What do you mean Argus?

Now I’ll present an equivalent argument to the one Lunatic presented:

“Free will is just an illusion - we don’t conciously choose anything; everything we do is actually planned out by our subconcious”

“Lucid dreams are just an illusion - we don’t conciously choose things in lucid dreams because we aren’t really concious; everything that happens in these dreams is actually planned out by our subconcious”

See the similarity? So why do so few people agree with the first argument, while so many agree with the second?

P.S. by “subconcious” I mean something within our mind which is beyond our concious access (self-referential here, I know).

(end of topic which is now locked)

Explaining an LD to someone that hasn’t had one is a bit like explaining to a blind man what it’s like to see. Then the blind man says “you can’t really see. You only imagine you can see.” See what I mean? :wink:

I think that our brain don’t have enough power to render the entire world with so many other people in it and make it so real with such a detail and stuff to it, but what if we are in the dream of a super being outside the universe or something. That being, if it was so super, would certainly have the power to emulate the entire universe? But still I think and therefore I am, even if I’m only in somebodys dream I know that there is a me.

Two things: What does this have to do with the topic, and why would the brain need to create the whole world?

In fact, the brain is constantly using lots and lots of learned tricks to speed up how we percieve reality. The slow method would be to take our whole vision on each eye and then somehow combine them to create the perception of distance. But actually, it does clever stuff - identifying areas which are not changing, looking at shadows, filling in the blind spot, etc. What we see as reality is not always “the real thing”. But out brain is pretty accurate, and we rarely notice.

only a few out of all the people Ive told about lucid dreaminf think its cool and want to research it further… others are either reluctant, scared or too narrow minded to even consider trying it… fools… all of them

silva: There’s already a topic about that in Quest. Topic is like: “Why people don’t want to LD” (or similar)

Mike716… Yes some people have had dreams of lucid dreams, but for the most part your friend is absolutely wrong, jsut as any one that has had many lucid dreams would tell you.

There are however two levels of control in lucid dreams that I have experienced. One is concious control. An example of this would be making something apear out of this air or flying. Another type is sub concious manipulation. I think this is the most important type of control because it allows you to do amazing things that are just to complicated for your concious mind to accomplish. This would be like opening a door labeled 1989 denver broncos and having it open up into the football stadium with all the fans and the football team playing.

Lucid dreaming has been recognised and accepted by neurologists who have done experiments on dreams. Best simple example, someone that will observe you while you’re sleeping tells you to move your eyes to certain positions in a certain sequence so when you go to lucid dreaming, the observer can see your movements while REM.

Sure it can and does everyday. According to most experts everything you see, hear, feel and experience is created in your mind. For example, when you look at something you do not see it with your eyes. Your eyes just send impulses back to your brain creates the picture of what you are seeing. That is the basic non- technical description of it anyway.

silva

You are not going to convince everyone and if people do not want to believe you that’s ok. Respect there right to live in ignorance. Better to spend your energy helping people who want to know more about LD ing.

Good luck

Wow, that sounds like such a sarcastic statement (and yet sarcasm doesn’t seem like your thing). You’re right though. Sometimes you just gotta say “whatever” and forget about trying to change peoples’ opinions. They usually don’t want to make the effort so why even bother after they’ve slammed the door in your face? (That wasn’t meant to sound spiteful, I promise.) :wiske: