Aren't OOBE's just lucid dreams

im a bit confused, all these ppl saying that SP is the start of an OOBE surely they are just entering a very strong LD?

It depends on who you ask, I have had a few OOBE’s and the only difference that I could notice is that I was flying and couldn’t controll how I was flying. It also happened in my room and I started in my bed. I would say it’s just a LD, but that’s just my opinion.

thanks, and also can you change the scenery at will, or is there anything out of the ordinary when you OOBE (apart from the fact you have just left your body!)

I don’t seem to have that much controll in a OOBE for some reason :sad: and I have only had something like 2-3 of them and they have all basically been the same. I wake up, I float away in my room and I then wake up for real. And I haven’t seen my body in a OOBE yet, I seem to always look up never down.

I think people who think that OOBE’s are dreams - didnt really have an ACTUAL OOBE.

That is really what i believe. Seems like many oobe believers think that it is all real, due to the fact that they enter it conciousely and that it is very vivid…
I have had many wilds where i just stepped out of my body, and i am pretty damn sure it is nothing more than a lucid dream.

The fact that x% of people who have had OOBEs and think that they are dreams means that everybody else must be having real ones!

…Not.

Right now there is no proof either way. Many people say that OBE is just a WILD. Yet when you talk to people who have OBE the experiences are very different from WILD. With an OBE people say they take place in this “world” and the environment is stable(Meaning you can’t change it). With WILD you may enter an environment that resembles this world. I often wake in my room but, It is very clearly a dream. I have a very high level of lucidity and the environment is very changeable.

What does this prove? Nothing at all. The bottom line is that it all comes down to what you believe.( At least for now )

maybe there are 2 types, one where your just having an LD, and then another one that is actually a prober OOBE…

I dont know though… I’ve not had either :sad:

That could be true. The induction techniques for both OBE and WLD are nearly identical so, I do not know how one can choose an OBE over a WILD or vice versa. Perhaps it is as simple as what your intention is.

Some argue that OBE are just low level WILD ‘s.

The way I beleive is that an OBE is no different from a WILD, but an Astral Projection is completely different.

OBE is not just a dream… you actually step outside of the skin you live within and you are the closest you can get to your real self, or your soul without dying. thats what i believe. and i believe a lot of people in this discussion have not had genuine OBE’s and they are just experiencing a lucid dream but not quite an OBE. maybe on the verge of one.

when you see HI can you not manipulate the HI into a dream scenario and enter a LD that way?

i’m new to this stuff so i’m really not sure.

I think ViperX has a good point. There have to be two types. I think if you’re experiencing one during LD than you can manipulate your surroundings. Whereas, if you meditate to the point where you have an OOBE than you cannot manipulate what’s around you but become part of the surroundings itself

This is how I’ve always seen it.

AP - To project from ones body to walk around the astral world and view things in the physical world that are happening/happened/will happen using the consciousmind

OOBE - To project the unconsciousmind to ones astral body during sleep usually having less control. However still the ability to visit the physical world if one can gain enough control to do so.

Lucidity - a dreamstate where one becomes aware of their dreams and thus can control the dream how they see fit. Although they do range in the amount of control you can have.

I believe that that people that say OBEs and LDs are the same because unlike AP they are reached through the subconscious/sleeping mindstate - or have false OBEs and thought they were the real thing.

Philtemn i tested obe’s also with some others and it seemed that in most cases ppl that think they have a obe jsut have a ld with a body double or a normal dream with a body double.

Yogi say a real obe is where the near death experience begins, so under deep sleep.
Isnt it obvious that ppl with a near death experience really change for good!
And 75 % of them has a sort of bliss heaven experience and are enver afraid of death again.
But! 25% of the near death experiences have a hell experience and they are traumatized for the rest of there lives about death and whats next after it!
Where do u see both cases back from the normal obe’s that are just dreams?

So i agree you got 2 obe’s…fake ones from dream level and real ones from below deep sleep, from a near death experience.