Scientists are on the verge of creating life: an article

Here are the major excerpts from the article:

[i]Scientists at Los Alamos National Laboratory are close to creating an organism completely different from any life on Earth.

They have all the building blocks ready and are hoping in the next few years to create a new organism 10 million times smaller than the smallest bacteria, they say in an article released today in the journal Science.

“If we can build creatures like this from scratch, we can design them to do things we’ve never seen in nature,” said Steen Rasmussen, a scientist on the project. “They could be the building blocks for self-repairing systems, but we could also design them with metabolisms not found in nature. We could make them eat the worst contaminants out there, then die when they run out of food.”

These tiny critters could lead to a new field of technology that allows all sorts of things - clothing, computer components, maybe even your car - to fix themselves, Rasmussen said.[/i]

[i]The scientists would build the organism by combining a synthetic DNA - called PNA, for lipophilic peptide nucleic acid - with a simple metabolism and a cell-like container to hold the material.

Such creatures could be released onto an oil spill in the ocean. They’d eat all the oil from the spill, breaking it down into harmless components, then die off as soon as the spill was gone. Other organisms could be designed to only eat deadly viruses, Rasmussen said.[/i]

[i]“Of course, there are a lot of moral issues surrounding the idea of living systems,” Rasmussen said. “Should we treat them a certain way? We don’t have moral issues when we give antibiotics to kill a disease. Still, there are serious issues about how do we use a technology like this. It’s like atomic technology - there are good ways and bad ways to use it. We just have to be careful.”

Some of the potential problems are very serious. If the tiny creatures were harmful or toxic to humans and able to reproduce themselves, it could cause large-scale damage, Bedau said.

“Also if they’re alive and can evolve, the consequences are impossible to predict,” Bedau said. “Still, we need to work on this because other countries are working on it. We need to research it so if there is a problem elsewhere we know how to deal with it. Also, by working on it we’ll learn how to control it and contain it.”

Right now, there are no regulations preventing or monitoring the creation of artificial life. That is something that should be worked out before scientists actually create their first living cell, Bedau said.

“There may be clouds on the horizon but this technology also has the potential to open a fantastic door to all kinds of new possibilities,” Bedau said. “We’ll be making life. On a pure scientific level, that means we’ll have a very deep understanding of what life actually is. In a more practical vein, life has very interesting and powerful properties. It’s the only thing that can reproduce and repair itself.”[/i]

Source: abqtrib.com/archives/news04/ … life.shtml

What are your opinions about this upcoming scientific revolution? Is mankind really allowed to play God? Or are there some paths we better leave aside when exploring the possibilities of our scientific knowledge?
Personally I think this is just another example of the incredible arrogance of some scientists. They think they’re allowed to do anything, because they have the tools available. They probably think the moral issues will solve itself in time, when people get used to the idea (same thing happened with the cloning of animals, abortion, GMO’s,…), and eventually they can experiment as much as they like. Simply because man has an inherent sense of curiousity to explore the world around him, and woe betide the person who tries to stop this evolution of exploring! At least, this is the impression I get when I look around me (all my science teachers think like that). But I think this view is wrong. Instead of fanatically trying to get further and further, scientists should learn to accept life as it is. They should learn to look at life and experience its beauty instead of seeing only chemical reactions of molecules. A pure scientific view upon the world seems so flat and hollow. And dangerous too if you think about it. The image of a scientific hermit, locked up in his laboratory, playing God on his test animals appears in my mind. If only they’re able to see the depth of life on a more subjective, based-upon-experience-instead-of-objective-evidence way, they might realize that it’s unnecessary to develop science infinitely in every aspect. Luckily the experience of the infinite depth and beauty of life can never be translated into a scientific theory of interacting chemicals :smile:
Post your thoughts :smile:

My first reaction is: MUTATION!?!?!

if you put these organisms in an oil spill enviroment and they eat it, how do you know if, for example 50 of a hundred million cells find a way to live on something else, and find a way to reproduce?
The damage will be irrepairable!
Mutation happens all the time, so why wouldn’t these organisms mutate?

Thought about that too. This reminds of the famous quote from Dr. Malcolm in Jurassic Park: Life will not be contained… Life finds a way.
We know way too little about the underlying mechanisms of life to determine whether or not these organisms will mutate or find ways to reproduce themselves.

Actually there’s another good quote from Malcolm which suits here perfectly: The lack of humility before nature here staggers me.

hey everybody i’ve got a game to play… it’s called “Lets play god and hope we don’t kill ourselves in the process”

I don’t think this is playing god, nor do I see any implied moral issues. Abortion and cloning spark debate because they involve tampering with human life. This article describes a tiny and simple biological construct not dissimilar to existing bacteria. It can’t feel anything, and it doesn’t have a political opinion. It’s just a basic replicating organism that could potentially be extremely useful for our own survival. I bet most of you wouldn’t have a problem if they said it was a biological vaccine designed to target certain dangerous chemicals in our environment. But, as soon as they mention that the process involves tailoring what is essentially life, everyone jumps around, arms flailing.

I’m extremely happy to read of this development.

Well it would have huge potential but equally as great dangers.
It could have a greater impact then the nuclear science brought to us.

For oil it could be used but take heavy metals pollution…for such it couldnt be used because it would work on chemical scale and not on physics so lead stays lead etc. So eating the worst contaminations is bull!
Take radio active waste lol…that still would be radioactive and probably even destroy those cells because all that lifes is mutated by radioactivity and then enzymes are also destroyed and pna also.
so it wouldnt work for the worst contaminants like radio acitive waste or heavy metals like lead , cadmium, uranium etc

Dangers could be indeed mutations…but there are more dangers then that…like terorrists. Any info we have will sooner or later be accesable for all. But my biggest fear would be that it would mutate to a new virus or new virusses or mutation of existing virusses could maybe come into existense. Maybe even a merge could get into existense from a virus combined with that new pna, a symbiose, then we could be in for some bad surprises.

So i would say be extremely careful here…great plusses but if they make a mistake also great losses.
I give an doom scenario example, suppose they make a mistake and it multiplies in the ocean and mutates…suppose it change and start living from plankton lol well thats is responsible for 90% of our oxygen supply!
U can fill in the rest then.

Still it as easy can bring many many good things!
I am not against it, its our nature to explore…i have faith there :smile:
What is important here, that safety goes for profit…because profit often means less security, testing and means often haste!
And then things could be overseen.
So this should not be allowed to get into multinational corporations hands totally. Its of all our concern, a world concern. So there should be great control about this at all cost so safety stays the first rule here.

Jeff

Nature has a nasty habit of surviving and adapting regardless of it’s origins. If it was a microscopic technobug i too would be happy - i have more faith in technology doing what it’s told rather than a life form no matter how small.

Granted both could be altered to be harmful for terrorist acts but at least technology doesn’t have the option of mutation. Okay goody they could make a tiny lil life form that dies after it’s done what it was designed to, but what if that lil lifeform interacts with something like the plague (which still exsists) and mutates it into a strane that is airborn rather than contaminated by bites?

While i don’t see any moral implications to a lifeform like this there is still the risk issues that they even admit to themselves.

Actually I don’t approve this either :smile: We shouldn’t mess with nature, regardless of our curiosity to explore or the many positive effects. If we didn’t mess with nature in the first place, we wouldn’t have to deal with dangerous chemicals in the environment such as pollution, nuclear waste and oil so there wouldn’t be any reason to fabricate articificial bacteria to clean up the mess we caused. But I guess there first needs to happen a big accident before people reconsider what they’re doing and think about the possible consequences of their actions (look at Chernobyl, Exxon Valdez, Prestige, the thalidomide tragedy in the 60’s, Hiroshima, the ongoing disaster at Mayak,…). Those examples were only disaster on a more or less local scale. Other more worldly and more indirect examples are the ozon depletion, greenhouse effect, the accelerated extinction of animals/plants,… Here with the upcoming revolution, the possible dangers can also extend to the whole world (same thing is actually true for the dangers of nanotechnology). Ofcourse scientists will never say “it’s too dangerous to experiment on this, so we won’t explore this path”. That would go against their code of scientific development and exploration.
I don’t think the positive aspects outweigh the negative ones. Not at all…

The problem as I see it, is that there is no way we can stop scientists around the world who believe in progress. Even though this paritcular experiment is going on here in the United States and if we passed laws agains it, we cannot police the whole world. There will be scientists from other countries who will pursue this type of thing vigorously. As of now, a major worry here in the USA is the cloning of babies somewhere in a foreign country. My personal belief is it is a little scary to me, but I believe in progress for the betterment of mankind.

Mystic, I don’t agree. Do you expect people to suddenly decide that technology is harming the environment, and to stop developing anything artificial? This particular breakthrough is likely to help against natural threats like disease or poison, regardless of the mess we’ve made ourselves.

People seem to be under the impression that life would be perfect had it not been for our own intervention. This just simply isn’t true. The world is full of natural dangers that we’ve had to overcome with technology. Natures purely unconscious way of ‘working things out’ often results in the removal of the weak and underequiped species. Is that what you want? :smile:

Its not that simple -that we overcome dangers with technology.
Natural dangers…earthquakes?they werent so dangerous before we developed skycrapers…winds,tornados?they do just same damage as they used to.Same for floods.
Through the years we had done much much more damage to ourselves than good with it.Just to mention all civilization ilnesses…cancer,all types of allergies and all connected to those.
We just cant see the difference between safe and harmfull technology…
and we still are blind for that,sadly all because of money that are put in wrong hands.We have a technology to drive on electric engines.Why its not common yet?Cuz petrol companies would fall.We can heal ppl with marihuana.Why we dont?cuz medical companies are holding it back.I could give you heaps of examples.
We just make stupid choices and ruin our enviroment.No one listens to sciencists,everones listens to money.We have known for ages that red meat is dangerous along with other products…why we eat it?cuz all info about it it being blurred by so called reports based on manipulation of facts.
And now add terrorism to it all.
scary.

Great post, Jack. You’re completely right, humanity has caused a lot of damage by experimenting in areas that we know little about… but isn’t this the only way to learn? I wouldn’t personally say we’ve caused more harm than good, since our mostly artificial lives are almost twice as long on average now than they were only a few hundred years ago, and we’re susceptible to FAR fewer illnesses now than we were back then - but it depends how you measure ‘progress’. :smile:

Hmmm…thank you.
Though…“since our mostly artificial lives are almost twice as long on average now than they were only a few hundred years ago”
This is taking in count only a percent of people living in civilized countries…i dont know the right percentage but i guess that we need to count in all those ppl living in china and third world.They live even shorter:(
But as u said its all up to how u measure just anything.
I just cant believe how the hell it happened that on the planet that is full of everything there are still people dying of hunger:(:(:frowning:
We just do wrong choices:(
We can spend miliards of dollars for armies and then we cant gather few more dollars to help poor.So on,so on…oh well…its off topic and u all know what im talking about.
take care.

 REMEMBER-Allways Make A Right Choice.It all starts from us:)

I too completely agree with your first post Jack. And to me this shows perfectly that we’re going the wrong way. And everything always points to ego and money. The possible consequences for other beings don’t weigh up against those two.

I’m not expecting anything, because science will develop itself further, no matter what ethical questions will be raised. I just think science should more be open to the aesthetics of life and simply accept nature as it is, instead of trying to manipulate every aspect of its existence just for man’s own benefits.

If we didn’t live the lives we lead now, many diseases simply wouldn’t exist among humans and we wouldn’t have to fight against many poisons we’ve unearthed or created. I don’t have the solutions for all the mess we’ve caused. Changing our lives dramatically could do a lot for a start. But synthesizing new lifeforms to clean our mess, while these lifeforms possess even greater dangers is simply wrong.

I fully agree with you: natural life ain’t perfect. Far from it… But why the absolute necessity to overcome these dangers using technologies? Why not accept life as it is, with all its possible dangers? It’s technology which gives us protection against the “evil world out there”; it’s technology which separates us from nature, our roots; it’s technology which allows us to act arrogant and ignorant against our own roots, while we hardly know how deep the rabbit hole goes out there (sorry couldn’t resist using this :smile: ) and which allows us to play God. Technology disconnected us from the rest of the world. Restoring the connections will fill our lives with more depth, awareness and beauty than ever could be possible by applying artificial technologies. But unfortunately it’s harmony and wisdom against money… Quite an unequal battle…

I certainly see what you’re saying, but I don’t agree on your view of what technology is. It doesn’t separate us from nature, nor does it damage our otherwise harmonious existence with the (supposedly) peaceful natural world. Technology is part of nature. It’s just an intelligent way to organize natural elements so they work for us in positive ways. We’re not creating anything when we develop science, we’re just bettering our understanding of what happens when you manipulate the physical world in various ways, and discovering how this can be used to help us. It’s not like we’ve done anything nature didn’t support in the first place. :smile:

I am not a complete luddite, I understand that we had to develop from the Stone Age. However, we are going much too far, and too quickly. I think that now, once we have advanced to such degrees we should stop most development and only do what is strictly necessary. Surely it would have been better to have lived like the Native Americans forever than come to this point and exterminate ourselves?

Why are people under the impression that science is leading humanity to it’s end? I’ve seen no evidence of this, just paranoid theories that emerge from under each significant scientific discovery or development by ignorant naturalists.

We haven’t gone too far, not by a long shot. Nature is still hitting us with all kinds of horrible diseases and conditions that have nothing to do with our own experimentation, and we have to continue until we’ve stopped them. Humans are a fragile and disadvantaged species (physically), and our only saving grace is intelligence which allows us to find ways of manipulating the world to support our requirements.

Humans depend on death to stay alive. It’s that simple. You can’t pretend we’re a perfectly self-contained species capable of surviving in harmony with the environment, it’s just not how it is, whether you want to believe it or not. We make use of proteins to stay alive, and this means we have to devour plants/animals that were once alive. Humanity is essentially a virus (by all relevent definition), so what can we do?

Science-fiction aside, does anyone properly understand what science is, and what it’s trying to do?

Complete nuclear annihilation of life is a possibility. Science fiction dystopias are serious, for a single biological weapons accident could destroy most of the people in the world. And as to the world itself, consider this quote from a former Brazilian environmental minister who was responsible for protecting the Amazon:

"Modern industrial society is a fanatical religion by itself. We in the
capitalist system are now demolishing, poisoning, destroying all life-systems on this planet. We are signing IOUs that our children will not be able to pay…

We are acting as if we were the last generation on the planet and expanding beyond our means to live life at an even faster pace than before. Without a radical change in heart, in mind, in vision, the earth will soon run out of space and resources and end up like Venus, charred and dead."

The point is that we need some control of nature but not wanton torturing.

I disagree with what some people are saying. If humanity has come to this state in nature, then surly it was part of our nature to get to this state, or else we wouldn’t have.

I agree with Atheiest. Human life survives of the death of other lives, including itself. To be civilized humanity limits the suffering before death, not to stop death. This is not a definition, it is what I beleive to be what the term civilization actually represents at this time.

Although these mciro-micro-organsims have hugly potential dangers, with enough saftey precautions and research, (so that we may destroy them without effecting the envioroment to badly,) they will give more benifits than technology.

At the moment we are killing the world off with technology, global warming etc. Prehaps changing from one problem to another will balance things out until another change is needed.

The effects of this new micro-micro-organsisms needs to be completly analysied agianst todays technology, so that we may assess the correct path to go down.

We cannot just abandon both, because we have already messed the world up. Would making micro-micro-organisms to combat cancer, also stop cancer in other animals, thus we start to have animals taking over the world etc.

The micro-micro-organisms dangers need to be assessed, and each danger needs to be solved. Because this is new, we don’t know what the effect degree we could slove those problems to. It’s worth research considering we struggle to come up with solutions for technology.

Overall, I think it needs assessing before making jugments.

If you want to be strict, then everything we know finds its origins in nature. But when you talk about the philosophy behind the concept of “technology”, then I disagree. To me, technology arose from a distorted world view and self image during the Middle Ages and especially the Renaissance Era: man started to believe he was so incredibly important that he puts himself in the center of the world. Technology must then be developped to surround man with tools which could strengthen this feeling of being the “Apex of Evolution”. This isn’t very natural to me. Technology is a tool of human Ego, not of nature.

Yin and yang my friend :smile: The deeper science digs in the web of nature, the more dangers science might pose to the world, because deeper digging requires more extreme technology with more dangerous hazards. You can’t have only positive effects. There are always the negative ones, which you haven’t thought about when you dug deeper.

Actually I’m supposed to know because I’m right in the middle of it (I study chemistry). But my opinion about what science is, will probably be different from the rest of my class :smile: To me, science is a belief system which tries to unfold the mechanisms which lie behind the phenomena we perceive through our consciousness, and particularly through the carnal senses. Logical empiricism is still the trading mark of science: valuable conclusions and facts about the nature of perceived phenomena can be found through empirical research and logical/rational thinking. There’s a linear process going from perception of a particular phenomenon, experiments to construct a preliminary hypothesis through the process of induction/deduction, more specific experiments to strengthen the hypothesis, more research (also independent research) until hard facts are all that’s left, which could then be used to substantiate a suggested theory, which might for instance be used to formulate a law.
Science is also supposed to use this new knowledge to seek out new possibilities which benefit mankind. But this is quite an idealized picture: science created the foundations upon which our current consumption society was built. There surely are lots of benefits, but also lots of negative aspects. The problem with science is that it seems to forget it’s just a model, a belief system to explain the world we live in. Instead, science likes to consider itself as holding the only valuable truth about the nature of reality. What can’t be explained in scientific terms hasn’t got much value and thus doesn’t teach us anything new about Reality and therefore has to be considered as simply false. This attitude is so fundamentally wrong. Instead of accepting the possible values of other models, science has crowned himself as being the only keeper of the keys to unfold the Truth, thereby slowly destroying all the other, and often MUCH older and wiser, models of Reality.